Plugin suggestions / mastering questions (I know, I know...)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steve Henningsgard
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Steve Henningsgard

Steve Henningsgard

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So here's the deal. As of a couple of months ago, I went 100% completely legit with my recording, software & hardware wise. (Yes, I should have been legit from the start, but I was young and had much different views on software pirating. I've changed, let's move on!) I've got a 002, Pro Tools, and a MacBook Pro, along with an 8-channel pre, and the default plugins.

And that's about it! I haven't gone out and purchased any third-party plugins, nor have I purchased any outboard gear, as I figured it would probably be best to get used to the built-in Digi plugins to learn what I liked and what I didn't like. To be honest, they all kinda suck for most things. They've got zero character, and I'm all about character with plugins!

SO... my first question is: where should I get started with building my plugin collection? OR, would it be a more intelligent, forward-looking choice to start getting some decent outboard gear, as it retains at least *some* of its retail value, and can be used in a variety of ways (including pre-digitamalizingation!)

My second, and hopefully much simpler question, is what software should I check out/buy for simple mastering? By simple mastering, I mean the technical things like song fades/track times & stuff. I know sound-wise, Professional mastering is something I simply can't do without a shit-ton of experience and high-end gear. Every project I track/mix, I suggest to the band that they get their songs professionally mastered, and that I have a very limited ability to polish the songs past the mixing stage (due to being so involved with the project, having very inferior gear to the pro's, and most importantly my lack of experience). However, when bands are on an insanely-tight budget, and they just need some extra punch and volume, I've done some positive things with a multiband, a good EQ, and a limiter (all 3 of which I no longer have as I've gone legit, thus bringing me back to my first question).


I know this post is kinda rambly and definitely touches on some oft-discussed subjects, but I'm really f*cking tired and would like to hear what peoples' opinions are relating to my specific situation, non-original though it may be.

Fire away!
 
Hey Steve,

To answer the question as far as outboard vs plugs the answer is both! Each have their strong and weak points, and your particular choice on which sounds better may or not be the same as mine, it's all personal preference.

That said, the first plugs I would try out in your position would be the ones from Sonnox. I use their EQ (with GML option) and limiter frequently, it's definitely one to have. I also use the Waves mastering and restoration bundles. They are a bit pricey but there are things that they can do that others can't.

If you're looking for "color" outboard is the way to go IMHO. The plugs that model do a decent job "for the money" but still sound synthetic. It's similar to amp modelers if you've played with them, there isn't a model I've met that can compete with a real Marshall or Hi Watt stack (let alone other emulations). Look for a good tube EQ or comp (Manley, D.W. Fearn, etc.) as well as Neve and Chandler for an "organic" sound. This stuff ain't cheap though, rent and try before you buy 'em.

As an aside on a recent project a friend of mine has been mixing in the box for several months now. They sounded "ok" but a bit thin. They took the mixes to a local studio and ran them through a Neve console, he was amazed at the amount of depth he acheived this way. I still have to check them out, one set of mixes were previously done on an SSL and the others on the Neve with the same engineer. If interested I'll report back.
 
If you want character plugins, then mastering plugins are probably *not* the direction to go in.

Since you have ProTools you are very lucky, as you can use the Steve Massey plugins. These are *great* plugins with a lot of character, and are also quite inexpensive as compared to other plugs. The Massey plugins are by far my most used plugins for mixing. I own all of them except the distortion plug, and I can't recommend them highly enough.

In addition to the Massey plugins, the others I find most useful are the PSP plugins Vintage Wamer 2, and MasterQ.

Don't worry about resale value. You are buying this stuff to use, not to be a dealer of. People are all uptight about "resale value" on these message boards, even though resale value has *zero* relevancy when choosing gear for ones' studio. Buy what you like and use it--and if you later decide to sell it, just get what you can for it. That's all there is to it, nothing more.

I personally use plugins and outboard. I basically get the mix as far as I can with plugins and then add the outboard. I'd say do a two pronged approach, starting with a solid plugin collection. Then gradually add some good outboard as your needs develop in that area.
 
masteringhouse said:
Hey Steve,

To answer the question as far as outboard vs plugs the answer is both! Each have their strong and weak points, and your particular choice on which sounds better may or not be the same as mine, it's all personal preference.

That said, the first plugs I would try out in your position would be the ones from Sonnox. I use their EQ (with GML option) and limiter frequently, it's definitely one to have. I also use the Waves mastering and restoration bundles. They are a bit pricey but there are things that they can do that others can't.

If you're looking for "color" outboard is the way to go IMHO. The plugs that model do a decent job "for the money" but still sound synthetic. It's similar to amp modelers if you've played with them, there isn't a model I've met that can compete with a real Marshall or Hi Watt stack (let alone other emulations). Look for a good tube EQ or comp (Manley, D.W. Fearn, etc.) as well as Neve and Chandler for an "organic" sound. This stuff ain't cheap though, rent and try before you buy 'em.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice! I'm definitely in this for the long-haul, and I'd much rather get stuff I'm happy with 10, 20, 30 years down the line, vs. shit that "works for now", but that I'll have to replace 2 years from now when I want to 'upgrade' again. Thanks! :)

masteringhouse said:
As an aside on a recent project a friend of mine has been mixing in the box for several months now. They sounded "ok" but a bit thin. They took the mixes to a local studio and ran them through a Neve console, he was amazed at the amount of depth he acheived this way. I still have to check them out, one set of mixes were previously done on an SSL and the others on the Neve with the same engineer. If interested I'll report back.
Click to expand...
Please do! :)
 
SonicAlbert said:
If you want character plugins, then mastering plugins are probably *not* the direction to go in.

Since you have ProTools you are very lucky, as you can use the Steve Massey plugins. These are *great* plugins with a lot of character, and are also quite inexpensive as compared to other plugs. The Massey plugins are by far my most used plugins for mixing. I own all of them except the distortion plug, and I cna't recommend them highly enough.

In addition to the Massey plugins, the others I find most useful are the PSP plugins Vintage Wamer 2, and MasterQ.

Don't worry about resale value. You are buying this stuff to use, not to be a dealer of. People are all uptight about "resale value" on these message boards, even though resale value has *zero* relevancy when choosing gear for ones' studio. Buy what you like and use it--and if you later decide to sell it, just get what you can for it. That's all there is to it, nothing more.

I personally use plugins and outboard. I basically get the mix as far as I can with plugins and then add the outboard. I'd say do a two pronged approach, starting with a solid plugin collection. Then gradually add some good outboard as your needs develop in that area.
Click to expand...
A fair assessment, thanks for the advice :) I've actually been using the Massey demo's and have been pretty happy with them, considering they re-set themselves whenever I close the project (a very fair demoing system, in my opinion!). Perhaps I should throw down some cash for these guys...
 
steve.h said:
A fair assessment, thanks for the advice :) I've actually been using the Massey demo's and have been pretty happy with them, considering they re-set themselves whenever I close the project (a very fair demoing system, in my opinion!). Perhaps I should throw down some cash for these guys...
Click to expand...

Definitely! Some other good features come into play as well once you've bought them.

I'm not much of a plugin guy, as you can see from the short list of plugs that I regularly use. But I really love those Massey plugins.
 
Hey there -

I've tried just about every native plug there is a demo for (Cubendo user, here)...and the only ones that I've actually ended up buying have been Melodyne, Autotune (Might not have bought this one if I had heard of Melodyne before I got it), Drumagog, and some of the Waves plugs...

I'm somewhat of a minimalist when it comes to plugins, I guess...but I really couldn't get by (and keep a good reputation and a steady flow of business) without those plugins....I guess the talent pool's just not deep enough around here to get by without a vocal tuner and a sound replacer.

Outboard gear I have a bit of, though I've been selling it all off lately as I don't actually use it anymore.... I'd suggest if you really want an outboard piece, then get a good analogue compressor. Some of the cheaper ones that are still pretty good are the DBX 160XT - or the DBX 166XL if you can't swing the 160.

Hope that helps!
 
UAD - best plugs on the market IMHO. Get a used Mackie version card off eBay or GS and you get the 1176 an LA2A for free! If you do rock, you will LOVE the 1176.
 
a set of plugins that has character...would be the WAVES SSL plugins.....

i absolutly love them for mixing......
 
bkkornaker said:
a set of plugins that has character...would be the WAVES SSL plugins.....

i absolutly love them for mixing......
Click to expand...

I've heard that from a couple of different people... do they have demo's out? I thought I remembered hearing they did...
 
bkkornaker said:
a set of plugins that has character...would be the WAVES SSL plugins.....

i absolutly love them for mixing......
Click to expand...

I like 'em too. I've heard good things about McDSP as well also.

My fav plug for color is still Crane Song Phoenix, but only available for TDM. Again is it tape? no, but it isn't as noisy either.
 
SonicAlbert said:
Don't worry about resale value. You are buying this stuff to use, not to be a dealer of. People are all uptight about "resale value" on these message boards, even though resale value has *zero* relevancy when choosing gear for ones' studio. Buy what you like and use it--and if you later decide to sell it, just get what you can for it. That's all there is to it, nothing more.
.
Click to expand...
I agree whole heartedly.I've read many threads where resale value was the first requirement right out of the box.If you do a good job buying gear you shouldn't have to worry about selling it.

I would second the suggestion of UAD plugs,there's some character there,that's for sure.
 
Peak

as far as basic "mastering/touch ups" go, Bias Peak LE is perfect for the mac... test the demo... It's pretty sweet.
 
Golden said:
as far as basic "mastering/touch ups" go, Bias Peak LE is perfect for the mac... test the demo... It's pretty sweet.
Click to expand...

Looks pretty nice! Wouldn't happen to come with a multiband would it? :D Perhaps I'm asking too much haha
 
Sounds like it's mostly been covered but I'd just like to add my support for the Massey plugins. Take it for what it's worth. I'm and intermediate engineer and work on my own music but when I downloaded the Massey plugins my mixing started falling into place a lot quicker. When I use the musician friendly adjustments I can actually hear the differences. Graphs I'm sure are useful to some more technically oriented than I am, however I found with the Massey plugins that by removing a lot of the "visual stuff" it puts the emphasis back on my ears where it should be. They have the look of outboard gear. This peaks my interest in outboard gear.

I don't want to hyjack this thread but I have an RNC (good reviews for the price) that I use to comp. as I record. I don't even know how to hook it up to use with my system during mixing. If you prefer I'll start another thread but I'd really appreciate any feedback I could get on this.

The Massey demo policy is "very fair" and I'll purchase them when I get some pennies saved up.

Thanks,
Rusty K
 
Rusty, it depends on what kind of interface you use. If you have some kind of snazzy digital/analog hybrid console with insert points for your tracks, then you'll use a side-chain insert cable on the track (or channel or your console). Tip=Send, Ring=Return. Send the signal to the input of the RNC, and have it return from the output.

But if you have a normal interface with a few analog ins and outs and no fancy insert points, then you will set up the track you want to compress to output from an unused output on your interface. Run that to the input on your RNC, and run the output of your RNC to an unused input on your interface.

Example: Say you have 8 analog ins and 4 analog outs on your interface. Also, let's say you use outs 1 and 2 for your main stereo outs in your DAW software. Finally, let's say you only have analog input 7 available while mixing (for whatever reason).

You would set the track needing compression's output bus to run out of analog out 3 of your interface. Then create an empty track in your DAW and set it's input to IN 7 (or any of the other inputs...). Now run a cable from OUT 3 on your interface to the input on your RNC, and run another cable from the output of your RNC to IN 7 on your interface. Monitor/record channel 7, and....well, that should be a thorough enough explanation, really, heh...

Hope that helps! (Sorry for feeding the thread-high-jacking, Steve.)
 
TyphoidHippo,

Much thanks...I've got a Mbox mini but I think I can figure it out from your description.

And that's it....no more hyjacking.:p

Rusty K
 
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