Please help!

[darthpony]

Hi

The band that I play in, is currently recording an album.
Ok, this is the scenario:

This is now the 4th time that I've been told AFTER recording that there is something wrong with my bass tone. It needs more mids, or that is what I'm being told. When I sit there and record, I get comments like "it's such a nice tone" or "that sounds phat" but then afterwards I get told that there is something wrong.
Previously a piece of my bassline (slap piece) was just cut out of a single, because it wasn't working in the mix. No one told me, or asked me my opinion or whethered I'd like to do it over, I just heard it after the master copy was mixed down, etc.

My gear for recording:
Warwick Corvette Standard 5
Boss GT6B

Over the past few weeks I have:
1. Changed the levels on my patches on the GT6B
2. Changed the tone from my bass (as much as I possibly can with a bass and a tone knob)
3. Absconded from using the GT6B and just plugging directly in.

The gear used for recording:
1. MBox
2. PC with Pro Tools.

I got told today, after a bit of a heated conversation with the guitarist (who is doing the recording) that my bass is clipping because my EQ on my GT6B is over 0dB. I have no problem redoing it, but I hear that the deadline date is this Sunday, and that I must basically redo 14 tracks in this week. Which is a bit of a bitch, since I am a full-time employed programmer, and we have to rehearse on Thursday for a gig on Friday.

And I also hear that another guy, that I had no idea was involved in the production of the disc is having troubles mixing in my bass.

Any advice, or help that I can use in this situation?

It would appear that a big album sound is expected, by using home gear.
I also don't want to change my bass sound that much that by the end of the day, I'm unhappy with it.

Thanks

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Well - if you bass tone sounds good before it was recorded, then I'd say the skills of whoever's handling the recording are questionable!

Why don't you send it off to professionals for mixing, who have much better skills/facilities for analyzing track quality and performing rescues than a rookie DIY recordist?

 

[darthpony]

Thanks Blue Bear

I don't want to diss anyone, or being nasty, but I've spent the last 4 years perfecting my bass sound. I joined this band in January, and everything feels rushed. I mean I had to do 5 tracks in one day! Simply because I don't have any other choice, as I live 50km's away from the place where we record and I don't have the money to travel back and forth there every day.

We don't really have the money to do it professionaly. To me it feels like everything is being rushed along. I suppose it's like getting a gf and then finding out after a while the little things that work on your nerves. I like being consulted when I'm part of something to give my opinion on certain things. Things just get decided and money gets spent without all of the band members voting, etc. And I asked a while ago if it's a 5man democracy or what's happening?

Perfection takes time, is it not so?

The thing about the 0dB's, is that true?

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

The thing about the 0dB's, is that true?

Well... boosting frequencies with EQ CAN certainly drive the outputs of the device to clipping.... but didn't they hear it during tracking???????? If not they should have.........

In any case, if you have post-eq level control, try using that to lower the output level, or don't use so much EQ!

 

[darthpony]

They did hear the clipping initially, and I then changed it back and forth.
And then they were happy and a couple of days later they weren't so I wasn't because I don't want to put something out there that's going to make me look bad, so I suggested we try another track with just clean input.

And now I don't have enough mids, or some **** like that.
I once did an experiment (because I'm a trixy hobbitses) where one of the guitarists asked me during recording if I turned my treble up, and I said yes, but I didn't (I know, I know) and no one picked up the difference.

 

[ocnor]

Why don't you lay down the tracks with just a compressor and no extra EQ? This way you won't get clipping and if they still can't mix it correctly then it will prove that they are the ones with the problem.

 

[darthpony]

Ta, I'll give that a go.
We dont have a rack compressor though, just the MBox. I'll just set up a blank patch on my GT with some compression.

Should do the trick right?

 

[ntnguitarist3]

when they are recording your bass... what is the gain set to on the mic pre amp u are recording too... turn it all the way off if its getting clipping... its right on the front of the MBOX...

 

[darthpony]

Thanks for the advice guys.
I'll check out the pre amp level tomorrow night.

I ended up using my backup bass (Cort) to record, because the signal coming from the Warwick is distorting. I've plugged it into a Motu before straight, and it worked fine.

Man, I need to learn about recording more.

 

[darthpony]

Well - if you bass tone sounds good before it was recorded, then I'd say the skills of whoever's handling the recording are questionable!

Why don't you send it off to professionals for mixing, who have much better skills/facilities for analyzing track quality and performing rescues than a rookie DIY recordist?

Previously I was recording by just listening to a monitor mix. Last night when I put on headphones (I live in a townhouse complex so we can't make a noise) I picked up immediately that my bass sound was distorting through the MBox.

Makes me wonder...

 

[Ronan]

Get your hands on a DI and use the sound you dig our of your pedal and also record a clean track for max flexiblility in mix down. If your bass is clipping than you have the gain staging wrong at some point in the chain.
Find out where its clipping and back off. This can be the worst on slapping parts, set your gain for the slap parts.

I have had to mix records before where things came in like you describe and its really tough. You usually have to roll off most of the high end to make the clipping less obvious. Some times that sounds cool, other times not.

 

[xfinsterx]

hmm if you went direct to the mbox, you could just use some of the stock plugins to shape a good bass sound.
stick an eq on the first insert and a compressor on the next man.
fiddle with the knobs till you get somethin you like.
that oughta suffice.

your friend recording your bass should be in this bbs, dont cha think?

peace, and good luck.

 

[chessrock]

It sounds to me like you're in a very unworkable and unrealistic situation.

Doesn't sound like your guitarist knows a goddang thing about recording / engineering . . . your project is doomed to become an audio disaster as a result . . . and he's looking for a fall guy / skapegoat to blame it on.

And you being the newest member (I assume?), you make the most likely candidate for that job. "Well, I tried to make the record work, but the damn bassist couldn't seem to get a good tone. Then he was clippin' all over the place."

I feel for you.

 

[darthpony]

It sounds to me like you're in a very unworkable and unrealistic situation.

I feel for you.

Lemme put it to you this way:
The deadline is for Sunday, I have to re-track about 9 more songs, and 2 of the songs they want to put on the album is not even tracked yet. There is a guide, and the drums are being done today. That leaves us until Saturday to redo 9 bass tracks and about 5 or 6 vocal tracks. The other 2 songs are new songs that we finished writing 2 weeks ago, and haven't even jammed live.

But anyways, I will be applying all of this information and tips as from tonight onwards - and yes I am the newest member of the band.
But I've tracked in a proper studio before, with album-quality gear and I've had no problems.

Just another things, while I'm busy tracking last night the guitarist got a call from the other guy that's now also involved mixing saying that he's finished mixing the track I did on Saturday, and that the bass is workable (whereas I got an email being told that the bass needs more mids) but it'd be cool if we could redo it.

 

[darthpony]

Well, I'm using my backup bass, and it's sound OK. I still would have preferred the Warwick though.

Thanks for all the helps and tips guys, and if I bitched about other things 'sides recording that's more political and administrational, then I apologise. I was just really really upset and I went off on a tangent.

I know what to do next time I face this problem

 

[darnold]

Yah i agree with Blue Bear and chess that this guys recording skills are the problem and not you. He is using you as a scape goat. Its a typical thing with new recording engineers, and thats why it takes so long to learn. Trial and error. When you think you have a sweet tone but find out it doesnt work at all for the mix.

Sure other things could be done to help fix the problem, but its not your fault that it was wrong after you already recorded it. It probably needs better compression anyway.

danny

 

[darthpony]

Yah i agree with Blue Bear and chess that this guys recording skills are the problem and not you. He is using you as a scape goat. Its a typical thing with new recording engineers, and thats why it takes so long to learn. Trial and error. When you think you have a sweet tone but find out it doesnt work at all for the mix.

Sure other things could be done to help fix the problem, but its not your fault that it was wrong after you already recorded it. It probably needs better compression anyway.

danny

If we had more time, to test things, it'd be easy to sort out the glitches. The recording engineer (guitarist) is not employed, whereas I can only do recording on weekends mostly.

In your past experience, or as a ballpark figure, if you're using home recording gear, how long should a 13 track album take to do? Because that is what the plan is. I mean, surely I shouldn't have to do 5 tracks in one day? The way I feel is that I should have 5 days for a track, to test and try things.

Haste makes waste.

 

[ocnor]

When you want to test and try things record a "demo". It sounds like the rest of the band thinks that experiment time is over. What you need to do is take your best sounding bass and run it direct and record the natural sound of the instrument. After it is recorded it can be manipulated with EQ if nessesary.
If you have practiced the songs enough there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to record several tracks in one day.

 

[darthpony]

It's a different situation when you have to record a song you've never rehearsed or played live before and you have to record and learn the song at the same time, and you want to put your own sound to it.

But the rest of the songs I can track in a few days. I'm just a perfectionist.

 

[darnold]

It should take, if your taking your time on things, but a little on the fast side at least 50 or so hours. Most likely, since it seems this engineer is a little wet behind the ears, it will probably take longer than if you were to do it with a professional. Remember that, you dont always save money by doing it with a lesser per hour studio. Normally a very experienced engineer can get the same or better results in much less time so you could actually be saving money by going to a professional. Of course it all totally depends on how much time you wonna spend on everything. But im guessing 2 hours to set up drums, then 2-3 takes on each song for each instrument, plus mixing time. But it all really depends on how much time you want to spend.

Yes, haste makes waste, my favorite saying.

Wrd.

danny