Please help on installing simple gear - noob here

[joms]

Hi,

I'm just doing this for our videoke sessions so I want to know how to install a TC-Helicon item to my mixer. My mixer is a Allen & Heath Zed-10fx. How do I use the TC-Helicon so that it can accommodate both mics? Note that I have no TC-Helicon model yet in mind since Ive been asking in another thread what TC-Helicon I should buy for my karaoke needs.

This thread is mainly on how to install it (once I know the model) with my current gear. For now 2x mics goes in the M1 and M2 and the "Main mix out" on the upper right goes to a QSC K10 speaker.

For reference, here is a pic of the Zed10FX.

 

[Armistice]

Just so we understand the problem...

You use two microphones, and you want to use the effects of what is basically/probably a mono/single input effects processor (the TC Helicon device - to be decided) across BOTH microphones at the same time?

And this all goes into your computer from the mixer?

 

[joms]

you got everything right except for the going into the computer part. It all goes to a QSC K10 active speaker.

By the way, is there a TC-helicon that is stereo? if not what should I do?

 

[Justsomeguy]

I may be wrong/may be missing the point but if you want to use the TC-helion just for reverb/delay effects than it's fairly easy. If you want to use it for the compression/autotune/EQ (depending on model) across both mics then there would probably be a problem.

To use it just for reverbs/delays, even in mono, you could plug the "FX out" from the zed10 into the input of the TC-helion and the output of the TC-helion into either one of stereo channels ("ST1" or "ST2"). You then plug the mics into individual channels on the zed10 and use the "FX" send pot on the individual channels to send a part of the signal to the TC-helion to add reverb/delay to it and whichever stereo track you've plugged the TC-helion into becomes you overall FX fader

 

[joms]

umm the FX out is mono only and the ST2 is stereo. So i just put a splitter? Can't I use monitor out or record out then send it to ST2 or ST1? Or is FX out better?

Also where is the FX send pot on the individual channels which you mentioned? Does this make it so that only a specific mic gets the effects?

I don't really know if what im after is reverbs or delays only cause I don't really know what is good to use. Would having a compression/autotune/EQ be good for our karaoke session or will reverbs/delays be enough?

I don't like the effects of the Zed-10fx that much as it seems to be unnatural or lacking unlike those that I hear in a good studio or pub/bar with a karaoke. I'm after this sound.

Thanks again for the help


Note: Wait i made a mistake, i am using a Zed-10FX so the picture is wrong. I need to change it.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Note: Wait i made a mistake, i am using a Zed-10FX so the picture is wrong. I need to change it.

Ahh, ok cool, i did get confused when you said there were internal effects as i didn't remember seeing them but on the updated photo they're clear as day

In which case, yes you would use the "Aux Out" to the TC-helion. Tbh i don't know the desk but on some on a stereo channel if you plug something in to one of the inputs it will come out in mono. Alternatively you could just plug the output of the TC-helion into one of the "line in's" on channel 1 or 2. So, you could plug the two mics in to channel 3 and 4 (M3 and M4 on the desk), the "Aux Out" of the desk to the input of the tc-helion, and the output of the TC-helion into channel 1 or 2.

On the desk, each channel has a "strip" of different knobs from top to bottom, in this case a three band EQ, then the built in FX knob, then the aux send, then pan, and finally output volume. The way i find to imagine what an "Aux Send" does is to compare it to a tap in your house: imagine the signal from the mic travelling from top to bottom down the channel strip. This signal is like the mains water for a house. The "Aux" knob on each channel acts like a tap to take a part of the signal away from the mains and send it off somewhere else. If we imagine that the mic plugged in to channel 1 is "hot" water and mic on channel 2 is "cold" water and you want to run a warm bath you could turn the hot tap all the way up and the cold tap on just a bit. The result is a lot of the hot water goes in to the bath (or, in our audio case, the bath is our "Aux Output") and a bit of the cold tap does as well, but the mains water carries on going where it was before (or in this case the main signal from each channel). To complete the analogy, if we want the warm bath water to mix back in with our mains we pull the plug in the bath and it ends up in the same place as the original mains water (or, in terms of audio, our "Aux Output" goes into whatever device we are sending it to, and then plug that device into a separate channel on the mix so that it can reach the main outputs alongside the original signals)

I hope that makes sense

So, in essence, by turning up the aux knob on a channel it will add more reverb/delay to that sound. You can do this with numerous channels and only one reverb/delay by sending different amounts of each channel to the aux send.

For karaoke i'd imagine a reasonable reverb would be more than enough seeing as the channels already have a three band EQ

 

[joms]

I kinda got it after reading your post 3x lol.

Anyway, i only need reverb? Isn't compression, delay good for karaoke? Can you recommend a good. Tc-helicon for me?

Also, why not just plug the output of the tc-helicon to st-2? Why are you suggesting channel 1 or 2(which is mono). Tc-helicon has a stereo output so it would be easier to plug it both to st-2 which has 2 inputs.

Is there any rwason why you chose channel 1 or 2?

 

[Justsomeguy]

Yeah, it was very late and it's an odd analogy but i'm glad it made some sense in the end

Well, tbh, all tools can be useful but, bare in mind, to use compression for each channel you would ideally want a separate compressor on each channel rather than using an aux send for it as you'd ideally want the whole signal to pass through the compressor rather than just a part of it, and as there are no direct inserts points on the individual channels it could end up being a messy signal path. You can go a very long way with just a reverb and some EQ, plus is would keep everything much simpler

I also didn't realise a lot of tc-helion stuff had stereo outs (i thought it was mostly mono ) hence my suggestion to use the mono line in on channels 1 or 2 rather than the instrument in's on 3 and 4 or the stereo in's on ST1 and ST2 (which one side is normally marked just "mono" but i couldn't see it) but, seeing as the majority of the range look like they've got mono in to stereo out, just plugging in to either ST1 or ST2 would be absolutely fine

 

[joms]

wow nice. now i need to find what tc-helicon i should get.

Is it true that most tc-helicon needs me to have either a guitar or a keyboard? I don't know how to play instruments. I only sing and I will only be using it for our karaoke sessions. If you can point me to the right tc-helicon please post here the exact tc-helicon model to get.

Oh and I just found out that there is a device that elimates feedback? This is nice to get as sometimes, we get feedback.

Also, note that you can recommend other products too instead of TC-helicon. I just know about tc-helicon because ive read it here in forums. If there is a single device that can give me reverb+ anti-feedback and I can add it with my mixer then thatd be nice.

Thanks so much for all the help

 

[joms]

Another follow up question. Will i get significant benefits from adding this reverb effects from tc-helicon? I just found out that Zed 10fx also uses a reverb effect. I thought at first that it was only "effects" and not reverb. I just found out that reverb is classified as an effect so that means I originally had a reverb all along? Is this right? I tried testing all the effects in Zed10fx and I didn't find any nice ones for our karaoke. Im kind of looking for that studio sound which is thick and nice. Or perhaps I just don't know how to use or setup the zed10 effects properly? Or maybe the Zed 10fx is really just not nice and not at all comparable to the reverb found in TC-helicon? I'm a bit confused now.