Please Help Me With Preamp

J

justinm.

New member
Would you guys please recommend a preamp. I'm not very skilled when it comes to recording and I almost always do it on my own.

I would be using the preamp for everything I guess, vocals, bass, drums and guitars. I have a RNC compressor and a Tascam digital portastudio 2488. Also, I'm not that well off so maybe something from $250 down. I've researched them online, but I still don't really feel I could estimate which one would be right for me. Actually, maybe I could go up to $400, since music is important to me.

Even though I own a compressor, would you recommend one of those preamps which is also a compressor?
 
You're pretty sure the effect of a pre is a step that'll be the biggest bang for improvement?
Were you thinking cleaner', or fun factor'? (Nice to have a bit of both at some point :)
 
I have the really small Mackie mixer. I think its vlz402 or something like that, the smallest one they make. It has 2 really high quality preamps in it. Very clear, smooth, and tons of gain. I highly recommend this box if you're on a budget. Really the next step up is going to be like $700 or something like that. With this VLZ you can get pro level recordings, so yeah. I have gotten a lot of good use out of this and never been dissapointed, and it also has a tape input which you can use as an effects insert, which I just figured out.
 
@Absolutepower Thank you for your suggestion. That sounds pretty good, I'll check that out.

@mixsit I guess I was thinking cleaner and louder. From what I hear, a preamp is an essential part of the recording chain. Is there something else you have in mind for me, I wouldn't mind hearing. I really don't have a lot of equipment and you should hear what my stuff sounds like. I doubt most folks record by plugging directly into the device without going through ANYTHING...I do! :)
 
justinm. said:
.. I guess I was thinking cleaner and louder. From what I hear, a preamp is an essential part of the recording chain. ... I doubt most folks record by plugging directly into the device without going through ANYTHING...I do! :)
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??
Just to be clear, the recorder does have preamps. (Right?
And is it not for some reason able to get you to normal record levels?
So the question might boil down to how much cleaner.
 
@mixsit Thanks again for your quick replies. Yes, you are correct about that. It does have a preamp, but...I don't know, I'm just not happy about the recordings I've made with the Tascam. The effects come out sounding really digital to me, I almost rather just use my 4-track. I've been thinking about posting things to let others on this site give me some feedback, though I'm kind of hesitant because my recordings sound a lot worse then everything I've heard on here. I'm pretty sure the songs alone will draw a lot of criticism, but at least someone could offer some helpful pointers. Are you using the same Tascam?
 
hey. there are only a few people around here that will slate your recordings with no constructive criticism, but for the most part, people around here are really helpful.

in terms of preamps, i just got a hold of the mindprint en-voice which is designed for voice, but ive used it on guitars and other stuff. it has an eq and compressor on it and sounds great, and it also has a tube saturation dial, which used to effect can add something to the source you just cant quite put your finger on. i guess it also boils down to what mics you use too. the mindprint envoice (mk1) is fairly hard to find now, but they have an updated version which is a lot pricier. im just getting into preamp choice too, and have been looking at some audient stuff. they have preams with a dial for harmonic distortion called HMX which can drastically change the input sound (for better, or for worse if pushed too far) but that can certainly spice things up without having to heavily process. can give an interesting sound. the one ive been looking at is the audient MICO. its a 2 channel pre, but they also have this black box thing. its a unit with blank slots where you choose a preamp or a compressor of that series and build it up so that with time you have a nice addition to your studio. this box initially costs a bit, but each channel you get for it is very reasonably priced.

i dunno, i guess its your choice. not sure you will notice a difference until you spend more :(
 
justinm. said:
...It does have a preamp, but...I don't know, I'm just not happy about the recordings I've made with the Tascam. The effects come out sounding really digital to me...
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Lets run it down a bit more though. #1 is the tone and capture of the souces. Yes a good recording chain is important, but then even these rather 'basic kits they're making these day are pretty darn good.
Also there is the recording room/ambient controll factor that can swamp the smaller differences and improvements from gear upgrades.
#2 is what we do with what we capture-- FX, mixing, etc.
 
Golden age pre 73 for $300 is clean and loud with character that'll sound nice on vocals and guitar.

RNP is two channels for $450. Very clean and doesn't really add any character just clean gain. Very nice for pretty much any source.

But, I would suspect a lot of this is your room and technique. Good preamps are nice but they aren't a magic bullet and won't make as big a difference as a lot of people claim and expect.
 
@skuthepoo & aaronmcoleman Thanks for the info guys, I know the room sound, mic placement etc. is important but since a preamp from what I hear is essential in the recording chain and I've been going without it, it sounds like I've been fooling myself thinking I can record without one. I don't expect to purchase one and all my recordings will be as good as gold. Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

#1 is the tone and capture of the souces
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@mixsit I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. I'm not really sure what I can do about the room sound. FX & mixing...I'm certainly not the best at mixing. I've thought about letting folks here listen to somethings of mine to help give me ideas what I can improve on. Maybe even try mixing something for me, I'd like to be able to do it myself...I've certainly practised enough, but I'm really still unsure about what I'm doing. I'm just usually taking guesses. I really would like a cleaner sound, and though I have and use amps, the amps and sometimes even the instruments go directly into the recorder.
 
justinm. said:
@skuthepoo & aaronmcoleman Thanks for the info guys, I know the room sound, mic placement etc. is important but since a preamp from what I hear is essential in the recording chain and I've been going without it, it sounds like I've been fooling myself thinking I can record without one. I don't expect to purchase one and all my recordings will be as good as gold. Thanks again, I really appreciate it.


@mixsit I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. I'm not really sure what I can do about the room sound. FX & mixing...I'm certainly not the best at mixing. I've thought about letting folks here listen to somethings of mine to help give me ideas what I can improve on. Maybe even try mixing something for me, I'd like to be able to do it myself...I've certainly practised enough, but I'm really still unsure about what I'm doing. I'm just usually taking guesses. I really would like a cleaner sound, and though I have and use amps, the amps and sometimes even the instruments go directly into the recorder.
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aaronmcoleman said:
Golden age pre 73 for $300 is clean and loud with character that'll sound nice on vocals and guitar.

RNP is two channels for $450. Very clean and doesn't really add any character just clean gain. Very nice for pretty much any source.

But, I would suspect a lot of this is your room and technique. Good preamps are nice but they aren't a magic bullet and won't make as big a difference as a lot of people claim and expect.
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The point we're fishing for here is to get some perspective on where you're actually at -quality issues' wise. You brought up pre's 'being essential' again. You have 'pre's in the recorder, and a better pre can make only a very minor improvement compared to recording and mixing skills, and when you're micing stuff some decent conditions to record in.
To say essential can be quite an overstatement in the scheme of things.

Anyway, back to fun mode- Chameleon Labs 7602 MKII | Preamps @ ZenProAudio.com
Loving the hell out'a this one. :)
About $5-600 used.
 
For the price and for your needs, a GAP pre-73 at $300 new is really a great deal. That would be my recommendation. It works well with LDC, SDC, ribbons, and condensers. Everything I have that I've run through it sounds good. It can go from detailed and fairly transparent to colored/warm and can get a little muddy, but still sounds nice.
 
Okay gang, prepare for a grumpy rant.

There is a great deal of tosh talked about pre-amps. However, you haven't even mentioned your microphone or collection of microphones--and the mic will make a far bigger difference to your sound than a pre-amp ever would. In my humble opinion, unless you have a really good mic--then spend the money on a great pre-amp to match, chances are you're wasting your money.

Compressor in the pre-amp? A good compressor alone will probably cost more than your budget for the combination. If you get your gain structure right, you shouldn't need a compressor anyway.

Mackie VLZ has "high quality" pre-amps? Only in the eyes of the Mackie PR department. Mackie pre amps are brittle, unmusical and prone to clipping too soon.

Frankly, your budget would be better spent on a good mic (depending what you have now) and/or a modicum of acoustic treatment where you record.

See, told you I was in a bad mood and ranting!
 
Bobbsy said:
Okay gang, prepare for a grumpy rant.

There is a great deal of tosh talked about pre-amps. However, you haven't even mentioned your microphone or collection of microphones--and the mic will make a far bigger difference to your sound than a pre-amp ever would. In my humble opinion, unless you have a really good mic--then spend the money on a great pre-amp to match, chances are you're wasting your money.

Compressor in the pre-amp? A good compressor alone will probably cost more than your budget for the combination. If you get your gain structure right, you shouldn't need a compressor anyway.

Mackie VLZ has "high quality" pre-amps? Only in the eyes of the Mackie PR department. Mackie pre amps are brittle, unmusical and prone to clipping too soon.

Frankly, your budget would be better spent on a good mic (depending what you have now) and/or a modicum of acoustic treatment where you record.

See, told you I was in a bad mood and ranting!
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Bad mood or not, you are absolutely correct.
 
On a side note, I am in the market for a pre. Especially for my SM7b. I have realized that purchasing something in the $5-600 area, is not going to be a good investment for me. I want something that I will use for the rest of my life, not throw on the shelf or sell off at a loss to some other eager soul. Instead of potentially wasting money, I am holding off until I have $1500 or more to get something that will be a go to tool in my rack forever. Almost there. :D
 
jimmys69 said:
On a side note, I am in the market for a pre. Especially for my SM7b. I have realized that purchasing something in the $5-600 area, is not going to be a good investment for me. I want something that I will use for the rest of my life, not throw on the shelf or sell off at a loss to some other eager soul. Instead of potentially wasting money, I am holding off until I have $1500 or more to get something that will be a go to tool in my rack forever. Almost there. :D
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Go Jim Go !
 
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