please assist me outboard questions

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trebles

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Hello all


Ive spent a great deal of time reading reviews and posts etc etc etc all telling me why this is good or that is better ive seen very little on equipment lists for example

How does a person who is starting out know how many compressors they need or how many effects processors they should buy etc etc this list goes on and on i figured out that if i want to work with anything from a 16 to 24 track set up in the long term i will require a good swag of high end mic pres so all that has been realised i figured about 12 to 14 chans to start with.

now is there someone who could explain to me other then mic pres and mics how many of each piece of outboard equipment will i need for a16 to 24 track studio what gear is a fad and what is the must have stuff and i dont mean talking about what i got to spend its more what do i need for example

1x 16 chan desk

12 to 14 chan of mic pre

1 high end dual band compressor for vocals

or an 8 chan presonus m 80 for drums and a how many other for the rest of the jobs in the studio

The style of music i will be recording will be mainly rock and pop acts and by that i mean pop not popular music gee this is gonna start another debate hehehe eg the beatle the bryds were pop early but still pop current bands in my counrty like even are pop its a feel a style sort of the offshoot from what started beat in the 60,s the look and feel is like early stones kinda stuff in a more garage sence phewwwwww but some of it also shimmers and sparkles too and is very sweet to the ear o well thats what i think

ok back to reality i hope ive been clear its not what brand is better then another or how much i got to spend its how many of each unit do i need in my outboard rack and what should i avoid buying. like do i need de essers and the likes or can i get by with a more basic approac in my rack

I will be recording all to my daw for now via this type of mixer when i buy it

http://www.spirit-by-soundcraft.co....io/foliofx1.htm

later on i will buy a 24 track h disk recorder and upgrade my desk to something more closer to 24 chans 8 bus a trident would be nice but wow expensive too but thats another matter all together best left till im ready to purchase such a desk anyway if someone who knows their stuff can answer this for me id be greatly pleased indeed thanking you all in advance


kindest regards wayne


:confused:
 
I think it is important to first choose your final destination.

A lot of studios are turning into DAW based and that makes the decision different. Since in many of those cases, the (outboard) gear is based around plug ins and then you have less of a problem of how many compressors as you can strap across the
board a large amount. That means you have to think more in terms of DSP power and not as much amount of compressors.
Take for example a Pro Tools based studio or a Paris based studio, with a good set of plug ins. The main problem would be
a DSP one.
If your planning to go ADAT (or any close format), then are you planning to fly the mix in to a computer? or are you planning to mix runing it all through your board.....

If you know the format you are planning on using I can give you more details.

Of course there is the question of - are you looking for a certain sound in your studio as in....do you want one type of compressor(plug in) or are you looking for diversity in sound and are willing to buy different compressors for different jobs....same with pre's, mics, and basicly all your gear. Do u want your drums to run though the same pre X8 ? etc..etc...

Answering some of these questions will bring you closer to a decision.
 
Thank you Shailat for your reply :-)


hmmmm Final destination

24 track studio set up to mix and record bands rock and pop yes a dying art i guess since not as many are playing the kind of music i grew up with scenes change and i know sinking my life into this will be silly but i also know sticking a few pieces of equipment into a room of a house aint going to keep me happy either so you could say mine is the comprimise.


My solution


Id say i have to start with a daw not really my tool of choice more so i have two pc,s i have all the software i require including saw pro etc so pc wise im fine i know what i require to get that up and happening and that will be the recording solution in the short term i will master using this form of mixing and recording first then move back into a desk situation when i can, thats not to say i wont have a desk for starters the desk i picked for now is a soundcraft fx 16 its linked above in the opening post but where i want to head is 24track 8 buss console minimum entry point a soundcraft 24 ghost or if i get lucky a trident console.


With mics and mic pres i know also what i now require but with the rest of the gear if i was wanting to set a good workable 24 track studio up what is going to be absoluutely essential and what will i be wasting my money on.


for example people say what do you want a 24 track h disk recorder like a mackie a pc can do all that sure it can but a pc is dedicated to do many other tasks too and although its powerfull its debatable how reliable a pc can be in real world terms i would need to rely on this maybe day in day out so i cant afford bullshit conflict problems with a pc if ive got paying customers day in day out all must be a fine tuned operation i want to keep it slick and working well.

The Studio

I wont be the only one using the rooms id also like to hire out the rooms for rehersal time/band time and have engineers work the premises when i am not working them myself

because of rental and the cost of all its impractical to rent a place i will not go into a deal like this more so i will own land residential land and build onto the land all with easy access to the public on my own property this way i do as i like if i want to record so be it if i dont want too well there is no stress from rental and having to juggle to survive.

I like the more laidback approach make a few dollars here and there without the commitment other studios have to go through essp rental on premises and wages etc and also because we all know nobody except the names in this business make a great living so doing it the way ive planned means i have the freedom to do as i like
when i like no questions asked.


Money will be cash in hand as the studio will be cheaper then other studios so bands will want to use it we wont be that far from a train station either so musos without transport can get to us easily without too much drama iam even happy to go pick up people and their gear and tranport it all free of charge back to the property as a service to make things a little easier for the person who has to lug alot of gear.


Yes building all this and funding it will be my problem but im pretty creative when it comes to funding things and im not so impatient so i can wait for this to be built ive still got a working daw so i wont stress while im waiting for what i want i will use what ive got simple.

OK NOW THE OVERVIEW IS IN PLACE

what would now be my list of gear given my original question as above? kepp in mind im talking 24 track working studio/hire studio a more piece by piece account is more what im looking at and this is more so with the rack gear as the rest i feel ive got a good idea what it is i want anyway thanks to all who answer and assist with usefull feedback cheers people



kindest regards Wayne



:)
 
You have caught on to some important points.
If you only knew how many studios have droped dead due to rent problems you would be shoked.

Also you are so right about the PC. No matter what anybody will tell me, A PC is not a reliable tool for day after day use in a comercial studio. It is a nice tool but not reliable in the sense were you can leave a engineer with it to record a band and not be surprised when he calls you to come fix the damm thing.
Mean while the band demands a huge discount- you lose your name - everybody is pissed at you, etc....

Your service of helping them get the gear into the studio is the right attitude. Youre going to have to fight over clients and service is sometimes more important to people then the actully quality of the gear.
The cash in the hand.......I'm not so sure about that but defenitly an advance or half up front. Running a studio is like any buisness
the glamor of making recordings sometimes gets pushed aside for the shit of dealing with human relashionships and running after your tail to make money and collect it !.

To the point - if you are very serious then I would start with building the room and not the gear.
Always remember if you aim a bit lower, it will cost you in the long run as you have spent some of the money and now to upgrade you will have to spend more or tear out gear from the wall to rebuild etc....so one very important factor is the upgradeability of your gear.

I feel that if you are going the HD path you should consider a one shot system like Pro Tools or Paris or the Mackie and not a Roland or ADATS or a good soundcard but one that has no deticated software. Again...if it's to run day in and night and you want to sleep at night a one shot is the way to go.

A very Basic setup for outboard gear would be about 3 compressors 2 reverbs 2 gates a monitoring system and thats it. Asuming you will EQ from the board. I would suggest a DAT for rehersal bands going live to DAT and for back up if you can fiind one for cheap. If you can afford a masterlink then even better.
For a full studio set up you will need much more then that and for a rehersal room you will also need more monitoring gear.

I would seriously consider a plug in based system not as a "ideal of sound" but rather a system you can upgrade, trust, and use future ability alike 5.1 mixing as well as compatabilty to other systems that the client might bring in with him, and the ability to edit Video and audio combinations.
If you were planning to build a studio to compete with the larger studios then I would tell you to also get a PT aside from every thing else :)

Outboard gear from my point of veiw is for people that want to hand pick their gear, use Analog, Want a diversity of different sounds, cant find a eqivilent of quality in plug ins (although that is to be argued), and dont want to be tied down by the use of a computer.

Good luck !
 
Hmm...

I would love to be in the situation you are at, but I don't own any property and I wont for another 5 or so years at the earliest. But I think you should take a good look at used gear. I know a lot of people will bash this, but if you got a hold of a used mackie 32*8 and 2 ADAT XT 20s, you will be down (atleast in america) around $4500, the way you were throwing around these ideas that isn't that bad. What it comes down to? Yea you can get a Spirirt Studio 8 bus as well, that is a solid board, similar osund quality as the Mackie, but a different colour. Then as Shailat said i think you can get two stereo/dual mono compressor gates combined, two verbs lexicon mpx500 or mpx200, and you really wont be that far behind, actually you would have a really nice setup. You could change that mackie out with anything in the similar range and im sure would be happy. Look at the Soundtracs Topaz, it even looks like it sounds smooth. I dont have any experience with it, but i imagine its just another different colour to add to a sound. Then a monitoring system, a soundcard for mixdown, and a computer. With this simplistic setup i Think if i itemise it, it hits about $8500. Not bad with the aspirations you have.
 
Thanks guys some good food for thought there amoungst all thats been posted so far

ok i,ll list the equipment i have in mind this way it will give you all an idea of where iam at

1x16 chan desk soundcraft fx16 this has a lexicon onboard effects unit dedicated to the desk

http://www.spirit-by-soundcraft.co.uk/prods/folio/foliofx1.htm

please check the above desks specs for details looks a great deal for 889usd just wish it was a 16x8 this is a 16x2x2

monitors nearfields mackiehr824,s

main monitors genelecs

the rack

micpres

sytek dual chan
vintech pair
art pro studio mp
studio projects vt1 pair
presonus m80 the burr brown jensen model not the newer ones

now thats 16 chans above im sure that should cover it mic pre wise great rivers and avalons will have to wait if i make cash fine if not then the above is what will do

ok compressors shailat you said id need three

A Pair of R N C compressors

focusrite penta x 1 hope this is a dual chan

joe meek vc1q meek also has a mic pre so theres 17 all up now

eq

well the desk eq will be what i use but will also get a pair of speck asc eq,s for the rack im sure they wont go to waste


Reverb for now will be covered by the built in lexicon on the desk plus a lexicon mpx 500 good guess kristian :-)))

so the above will be multi effects reverb etc though maybe i should look slightly higher then the mpx 500, lexicon make some great gear no complaints there.

gates x 2 undecided here any ideas would be great though the meek probably has something like that in the chan strip above im not sure will go look at it again

dumping the mix hmmmmm i will have a daw but dont want to have to depend on it maybe this is the answer untill i can pick up the hdr model which would be the next step up the mdr may have to do if i cant stretch for the hdr

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/love.music?p=p.MACMDR2496&z=1155179929264


alesis masterlink is another item i had planned as well for
mixdown to two tracks

ok mics

studio projects t3 vocals main
studioprojects c3 vocals
studioprojects c1 pair overheads or misc
pair of mxl 603,s for drum overheads
shure beta 58 x2 vocals
shure beta 57x6 toms snare hi hats etc
shure beta 52 kick mic
behringer b2 which i believe is a rode nt2 rebadge ahhh 797:-) misc tasks
pair of earthworks omnis tc30 k,s
at4050 pair
royer 121 ribbon

bass di device undecided as yet but sansamp has been spoken about lots so lets see

now other then mic stands and cables and other things including studio material i think ive covered it i have a daw so ive not listed much about it but its a p3 650 which will soon be a P3 1.13 ghz 40G 7200 diamond max hdisk 512 ram x 2, 256k wafers soyosy71s2 mb intel 815e chip set burner on board has all the programs everyone uses on bbs including SAW PRO WILL HAVE EITHER delta 10,10,s with lucid 2496 ad,s plus genx6 clock or the motu 1296 at this stage that will set me back a packet now guys have i left any details uncovered yes correct enviroment and techique thought id add that before somone else does :-)

ok looking forward to reading more of your helpfull guiding posts

thanks again


regards wayne
 
Is it the very newest version of SAW? If so, you can pretty much rely on it pretty well. Good solid shit, but its ugly. I can't say for sure, but considering its price and you already have it, I smell a crack. Shhhhh..... ;)
 
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