Please advise on what kind of keyboard to buy!

L

linuxandmusic

New member
Hi!

I am a home musician who wants to form a one-man band (consisting almost entirely of myself, although I may ask other musicians to play pieces I write on instruments I can't play). Thus, I need an extremely versatile keyboard that will allow me to record on to my computer.

As I have researched this, I have discovered that it is actually pretty complicated to find out what I need for this. It seems that there are many different kinds of keyboards: workstations, arrangers, portable keyboards, digital pianos, midi-controllers, organs and probably many more.

If it helps at all, I will list my desired specs here:

1. It must be relatively inexpensive (max: 500-600 dollars).

2. It must have a lot of "typical" sounds (tones? voices?) for a keyboard: pianos, electric pianos, organs, common synth sounds, strings, and more. The more the better! (Drum kit sounds would be highly appreciated, but possibly unessential).

3. I would like to have some synthesis features. I would like to begin with a tone (a sine wave, a square wave, a "triangle" wave), and be able to construct my own sounds. I think this is called additive synthesis? Maybe subtractive synthesis (removing harmonics from the wave) would be better? I would be willing to trade these features for a reduced cost.

4. Pitch-bending (for added expression).

5. Pressure-sensitive keys (for added expression). Might be willing to compromise this feature for a reduced cost.

6. At least two audio outs (output, "phones"). Stereo outputs would be great as well (but not essential). MIDI outputs would be a bonus (but again, not essential).

7. I want this to be a serious keyboard. No "beginner" keyboards with lots of demos and lessons. Illuminated keys are stupid; I don't want them either. If I must, I will live with these features if it reduces price or if the specific keyboard is really good.

8. Weighted, unweighted, hammer-action, or synth-action keys are irrelevant. I have been taking piano lessons for approx. ten years. I can play on anything. That said, if I can get better keys for no additional cost, I would. But I am definitely willing to compromise here.

9. Please note that I am also not interested in sequencing on my keyboard (I want to perform for the computer, you see). If the keyboard comes with these features, that's great. Otherwise, I don't care.

10. All the sounds must be relatively high quality. I don't want to hear a toy keyboard with cheap sounds. That said, however, I am not willing to pay hundreds of extra dollars for extremely good sounds. Decent enough to record is fine with me.

As you can see from my list, what I am really looking for is good sounds: high quality, much variety, and customization. I am also interested in expression (pitch bending, pressure-sensitivity, etc). First and foremost, though, it must have good audio outputs. These are the key features I'm looking for.

Is there anyone else out there like me? I could really use some advice and explanation. If there is anything in my post that doesn't make any sense, please tell me. I would like to make an informed decision about this.

Specific models would be nice to know, as well as advice on what kind of keyboard to buy (arranger, portable, etc...)....
 
linuxandmusic said:
Hi!

I am a home musician who wants to form a one-man band (consisting almost entirely of myself, although I may ask other musicians to play pieces I write on instruments I can't play). Thus, I need an extremely versatile keyboard that will allow me to record on to my computer.

As I have researched this, I have discovered that it is actually pretty complicated to find out what I need for this. It seems that there are many different kinds of keyboards: workstations, arrangers, portable keyboards, digital pianos, midi-controllers, organs and probably many more.

If it helps at all, I will list my desired specs here:

1. It must be relatively inexpensive (max: 500-600 dollars).

2. It must have a lot of "typical" sounds (tones? voices?) for a keyboard: pianos, electric pianos, organs, common synth sounds, strings, and more. The more the better! (Drum kit sounds would be highly appreciated, but possibly unessential).
Workable so far.

3. I would like to have some synthesis features. I would like to begin with a tone (a sine wave, a square wave, a "triangle" wave), and be able to construct my own sounds. I think this is called additive synthesis? Maybe subtractive synthesis (removing harmonics from the wave) would be better? I would be willing to trade these features for a reduced cost.
You're not touching this in this price range.

4. Pitch-bending (for added expression).
Naturally. Only low-level keyboards or dedicated electric pianos don't have pitch bending. Remember to consider the mod-wheel too.

5. Pressure-sensitive keys (for added expression). Might be willing to compromise this feature for a reduced cost.
Are you talking about aftertouch? Your budget is far too limited for this.

6. At least two audio outs (output, "phones"). Stereo outputs would be great as well (but not essential). MIDI outputs would be a bonus (but again, not essential).
Most keyboards above entry level have these.

7. I want this to be a serious keyboard. No "beginner" keyboards with lots of demos and lessons. Illuminated keys are stupid; I don't want them either. If I must, I will live with these features if it reduces price or if the specific keyboard is really good.
Okey-dokey.

8. Weighted, unweighted, hammer-action, or synth-action keys are irrelevant. I have been taking piano lessons for approx. ten years. I can play on anything. That said, if I can get better keys for no additional cost, I would. But I am definitely willing to compromise here.
Good to know. Will definitely soften the budget a bit.

9. Please note that I am also not interested in sequencing on my keyboard (I want to perform for the computer, you see). If the keyboard comes with these features, that's great. Otherwise, I don't care.
You're still shooting through your budget's roof.

10. All the sounds must be relatively high quality. I don't want to hear a toy keyboard with cheap sounds. That said, however, I am not willing to pay hundreds of extra dollars for extremely good sounds. Decent enough to record is fine with me.
I think here, you just need to audition sounds.

As you can see from my list, what I am really looking for is good sounds: high quality, much variety, and customization. I am also interested in expression (pitch bending, pressure-sensitivity, etc). First and foremost, though, it must have good audio outputs. These are the key features I'm looking for.

Is there anyone else out there like me? I could really use some advice and explanation. If there is anything in my post that doesn't make any sense, please tell me. I would like to make an informed decision about this.

Specific models would be nice to know, as well as advice on what kind of keyboard to buy (arranger, portable, etc...)....
Click to expand...

Honestly, I REALLY do hate to burst your bubble, but your budget for ALL the features is about 1/3 of what you'd need to get them all. You should tell us where you're willing to compromise, or hike up your budget, or go on eBay.
 
Kierkes said:
Honestly, I REALLY do hate to burst your bubble, but your budget for ALL the features is about 1/3 of what you'd need to get them all. You should tell us where you're willing to compromise, or hike up your budget, or go on eBay.
Click to expand...

Yeah. You're probably right. I guess I was hoping someone knew something more than me...

About the "pressure-sensitive" keys, I guess I don't have the right terminology. I mean a keyboard that is louder the harder you hit the keys. Is this really expensive?

I would be willing to compromise on synthesis. It would be nice someday... When I have the money... Oh well...

Other than that, what else could help me bring the price down?

And what could I get for 500-600 dollars max? Anything that would be close to what I want?

Also, what kind of keyboard do you recommend? An arranger? A workstation (these are probably too expensive)? A portable? A digital piano?

Thank you so much for all your help on this!
 
I'm not so sure folks - there seems to be some retailing blood on the floor at the moment and even online sellers are discounting heavily!

I was taking a peek at some e-bay sellers offering a variety of Roland keyboards for under a grand, and whilst at that end of the market you wouldn't get everything on the list, you might achieve a fair bit for under $1000.

I'm not much of a keyboard guy, but it might be worth you folks putting up a few suggestions at the lower end of what Linuxandmusic is asking for and seeing if the gent can score a few bargain hits on e-bay.
 
Look for Kurzweil K2500 or K2600 on Ebay. Prices tend to be around $700 up to $1600 depending on the condition. These machines will do everything and more of what you are wanting to do.

If they have the letter "X" after the model name, i.e. K2500X, that means it is an 88 weighted key keyboard. If it does not have the "X", then it is a 76 semi-weighted key keyboard.

If it has the letter "S" after the model name, i.e. K2600S, that means it has the built-in sampling option.

The feature you are refering to that allows the sound to play louder based on striking the keys harder, is called Velocity. All keyboards under the sun have that.

The feature that allows you add pressure to the keys after they have been played, to affect some part of a sound, is called "Pressure". And there are 2 types. Mono Pressure, and Multi-Pressure.

The feature that allows you to change some part of the sound by how quickly you release the keys is called "Release Velocity".

These Kurzweils have all of everything.

The K2500 did not come standard with the upgraded Effects board called KDFX. You need to be aware when looking and buying. I think that KDFX became standard on all K2600's. Ask lots of questions.

Also, the K2500 had optional sound banks you had to buy a la carte'. They were Orchestral, Contemporary, and The Piano daughterboard.

Both machines did not come with hard drives in them, and that too, was an optional upgrade.

The K2500 was manufactured from approximately 1995 to 2001. The K2600 was manufactured from 2002 to about 2007/8. It's not a whole lot better than the K2500 but it does have more processing power than the K2500.

They are both workstations that you will never tap their full potential. Truly.
 
Last edited:
I think the OP was referring to pressure-volume sensitivity, as opposed to velocity. Like an acoustic piano - the harder you hit the keys, the louder it is. Not going to find that with electronic keyboards. Velocity sensitivity is standard.
For the overall sounds (72 keys) and SOME of the features you want, I'd recommend the Casio WK series to stay within your budget - you can hear some of them from my WK500 on my songs on my web pages. Of course the Casios are lightweight, not really meant for heavy gigging. You won't get synthesis capabilities for that budget, but the Casios do have MIDI, so you could potentially drive computer software syntheizers. Note, since you mentioned not 'needing' MIDI, you will probably need to get an audio interface for keyboard=to=computer connection, keyboards in that price range will not have A/D converters.
 
Look for Kurzweil K2500 or K2600 on Ebay. Prices tend to be around $700 up to $1600 depending on the condition. These machines will do everything and more of what you are wanting to do.
Click to expand...
Yep. I think the early responses assumed you wanted something "new" which you aren't going to get those features under $1000. but who cares about new anyway. The K2500 is still a serious instrument and would def be your best bet for what your looking for. Granted it doesn't have usb to connect to your computer, you could record the outs or use a MIDI interface. I don't have you finding a k2600 under $1000 but if you do I would say jump on it as it still holds it's own today and it was made in '99. But yes the K2500/K2500S (sampling) <---which I would recommend, pretty much covers everything you want and more. Great keyboards. You might even be satisfied with a Kurzweil K2000 which sell for $275-400 all of the time.
 
I'm wondering if you are considering performing as a solo act with just a keyboard. If youre planning on just using it in a recording environment then check out some used workstations. The Korg Triton series, Yamaha Motif and Motif ES, and the older Kurzweil K2xxx series will do above and beyond what you need and occasionally you will find all of these used on ebay or craigslist for under 1000.

If you want to perform live with just you and a keyboard you might have to get something similar to the yamaha psr/ypt and casio wk series keyboards. They have almost all of your specs you listed and aren't that bad.
 
both

Brenton said:
I'm wondering if you are considering performing as a solo act with just a keyboard. If youre planning on just using it in a recording environment then check out some used workstations. The Korg Triton series, Yamaha Motif and Motif ES, and the older Kurzweil K2xxx series will do above and beyond what you need and occasionally you will find all of these used on ebay or craigslist for under 1000.

If you want to perform live with just you and a keyboard you might have to get something similar to the yamaha psr/ypt and casio wk series keyboards. They have almost all of your specs you listed and aren't that bad.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I've been busy for the last few weeks and forgot about my post on this forum! Sorry about that...

Anyways... I would like (if this is really even possible) to find a keyboard to do both.
 
Done some more thinking and I think that I could live with only 67-keys. Especially if the keyboard has an octave modulator (or whatever its called), which lets you change the octave of all the keys.

The problem I'm finding about researching keyboards is the lack of much good information on the subject. A typical Google search returns articles specifying what to look for in a keyboard, instead of listing many models and comparing them. Unfortunately for me, I neither know what I want or many models to compare. I have a vague, general idea of what I would like.

Let me rephrase all my questioning in a simple question: what advantages would there be in me buying a keyboard vs. a workstation? The problem I can see with buying a workstation is that I'm not a sound expert. In other words, I don't know if I could make a pleasing sound with only a sine-wave, additive (or subtractive) synthesis tools, and effects. Trust me. I've tried. I need something to work with first.

Maybe these musings will help a bit?...

I really do appreciate your help and again apologize for not posting for so long.
 
more musings

Done some more thinking and I think that I could live with only 67-keys. Especially if the keyboard has an octave modulator (or whatever its called), which lets you change the octave of all the keys.

The problem I'm finding about researching keyboards is the lack of much good information on the subject. A typical Google search returns articles specifying what to look for in a keyboard, instead of listing many models and comparing them. Unfortunately for me, I neither know what I want or many models to compare. I have a vague, general idea of what I would like.

Let me rephrase all my questioning in a simple question: what advantages would there be in me buying a keyboard vs. a workstation? The problem I can see with buying a workstation is that I'm not a sound expert. In other words, I don't know if I could make a pleasing sound with only a sine-wave, additive (or subtractive) synthesis tools, and effects. Trust me. I've tried. I need something to work with first.

Maybe these musings will help a bit?...

I really do appreciate your help and again apologize for not posting for so long.
 
No keyboards have 67 keys that I know about! It's 60 (or 61) or 72. A Workstation can be used to control soundmodules or other keyboards via MIDI - so you could have your laptop loaded up, plugged in, at gigs, or a rack of synth modules to create the sounds from the Workstation's internal memory.
I really suggest you get yourself to a store and try out a few keyboards in the price range you have picked, to get a better idea of what they are like.
 
I've seen full size (88 velocity sensitive keys) older Kurzweil's (ensemble grand) go for a few hundred on Craigslist, although keyboard sensors go out on those.

You can then use either a soft synth or pick up a synth module or two, and be well within your budget. Going used is not w/out it's pitfalls though. Ditto on the 67 keys. (My Rhodes has 73 though....)
 
just a few thoughts

Maybe I don't understand everything going on in this thread, but I'm going to try to clear up a couple of things.... First of all. do you already have a computer (or plan to use one with this setup)? If you do plan on using a computer, then all you need (at the very least) is a keyboard with a midi or usb out and a way to get that signal into your computer..... Commonly people use a setup like this with a laptop to play gigs with... Its a great setup for recording and is infinitely expandable through both software and also hardware (sound modules)... The sounds built into the keyboard at that point are irrelevant, but there is an issue at this stage... The worse the keyboard, the less control you will have over the outgoing midi data including all the types of velocity control and touch sensitivity, etc... So you may need to spend a little to get it to come close to satisfying you after ten years of piano...

So lets assume that you definitely need a reasonably responsive feel.. That would rule out the 99 dollar casios (which actually do have midi out sometimes)... The next thing to consider is whether you need sounds in the keyboard at all... If not you can get a really great midi controller keyboard for about $500 and then you must use a computer or sound module to get any sounds... I've had a 66 key midi controller for quite a few years that I use with reason and other soft synths within cubase... Its great and there are tons of free ones till you really get your head around the types of synthesis and how to control it...

So the last level is the true workstation synths... At this level you will probably have the capability to do sampling and sequencing and you are paying more money for it... It will be hard to get a good one for less than a grand... This eliminates the need for a computer though if playing live.... As a bonus the sounds on these are generally great... If you are interested in going this route, then definitely go to a shop that carries some of these so you can get an idea of the feel and sounds/workflow of one brand vs. another.....

If you already have the computer and you definitely cant spend a grand on the thing, I would go with a controller and some software... (You can get completely free software to get you started)... Then you can buy as many sound modules or rackmounted workstation modules as you wish!! There are so many great softwares and hardwares out there that the possibilites are endless... I went this route and I'm only now (five years later) getting to the point where I really want a standalone sequencer and more great sounds... But I don't think I'm going to get one with a keyboard, I'll probably buy a rackmount unit and keep using my midi controller with it... I'll probably buy the unit used!! I know that you obviously understood some of this stuff (and maybe some of it better than me), but I figured this may clear it up for you or someone else reading who may make better sense of it now!
 
brett304msn said:
Maybe I don't understand everything going on in this thread, but I'm going to try to clear up a couple of things.... First of all. do you already have a computer (or plan to use one with this setup)? If you do plan on using a computer, then all you need (at the very least) is a keyboard with a midi or usb out and a way to get that signal into your computer..... Commonly people use a setup like this with a laptop to play gigs with... Its a great setup for recording and is infinitely expandable through both software and also hardware (sound modules)... The sounds built into the keyboard at that point are irrelevant, but there is an issue at this stage... The worse the keyboard, the less control you will have over the outgoing midi data including all the types of velocity control and touch sensitivity, etc... So you may need to spend a little to get it to come close to satisfying you after ten years of piano...

So lets assume that you definitely need a reasonably responsive feel.. That would rule out the 99 dollar casios (which actually do have midi out sometimes)... The next thing to consider is whether you need sounds in the keyboard at all... If not you can get a really great midi controller keyboard for about $500 and then you must use a computer or sound module to get any sounds... I've had a 66 key midi controller for quite a few years that I use with reason and other soft synths within cubase... Its great and there are tons of free ones till you really get your head around the types of synthesis and how to control it...

So the last level is the true workstation synths... At this level you will probably have the capability to do sampling and sequencing and you are paying more money for it... It will be hard to get a good one for less than a grand... This eliminates the need for a computer though if playing live.... As a bonus the sounds on these are generally great... If you are interested in going this route, then definitely go to a shop that carries some of these so you can get an idea of the feel and sounds/workflow of one brand vs. another.....

If you already have the computer and you definitely cant spend a grand on the thing, I would go with a controller and some software... (You can get completely free software to get you started)... Then you can buy as many sound modules or rackmounted workstation modules as you wish!! There are so many great softwares and hardwares out there that the possibilites are endless... I went this route and I'm only now (five years later) getting to the point where I really want a standalone sequencer and more great sounds... But I don't think I'm going to get one with a keyboard, I'll probably buy a rackmount unit and keep using my midi controller with it... I'll probably buy the unit used!! I know that you obviously understood some of this stuff (and maybe some of it better than me), but I figured this may clear it up for you or someone else reading who may make better sense of it now!
Click to expand...

I should definitely consider using a midi controller.

What free software should I use? I searched around a bit and haven't found anything I like. Is cubase worth the money?

What exactly would the advantages of a stand-alone keyboard be?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top