Pleae help me layout my 12x11 room (photos incl.)

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Howdy Scott. No, I haven't forgotten you. This week has been a real bitch as far as time is concerned. Too many prioritys, so little time.
But just to let you know, YOUR project is a priority this morning. I've come to some conclusions though. Yes, you can reach your iso goal in this space, however, your budget is highly limited in that regard. I'll go ahead and post "my" solutions, but you may not be able to accomplish them on your budget. Its very difficult to say. DIY covers a lot of ground, but plain old MASS costs money, not to mention the other things that go along with it, like solid core doors and jambs, concrete piers, framing, mudd etc. Anyway, hang in there and I should be able to post some things tonight.
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello again Scott. Scott, I'm a little confused in regard to the "footing" under the "addition". Is this a continuous concrete footing supporting the complete perimeter of the "addition", or are there portions that are the "old" stone foundation.


In fact, I'm a little confused about the "addition" too. Is this WHOLE extension off the house the "new" addition(including the laundry and entry), or is the "studio" space "added" on to the laundry/entry portion later?

At some point, if you agree to my solution, you will have to open the floor for exploratory analysis of EXACTLY what exists, the spacing of the joists and exact placement of the joist spacing in relationship to the laundry room wall. Once this is done, then I can correctly dimension the framing I will illustrate tonight.

However, there are TONS of considerations here. The most important aspect of this project will be structurally strengthening the roof to support a robust TWO LEAF reinforcement of mass(drywalll). From the pics you posted, the existing roof rafters leave much to be desired in this respect. VERY weak. And from what you've told me about the cieling joist spacing.... hmmmmmm, this is going to really take some figuring. And the only way I can do it is if you GUT the entire room wall and cieling shiething, and PART of the floor shiething. I know that will take time. But if you want to succeed, eventually, this will have to be done...period. I see NO alternative.
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Now I know what is bothering me about this so called footing...In the picture showing the footing, the bottom of the adjacent door tells me where the floor is in relationship to the "top" of the footing. What this implies is, the existing floor joists do NOT bear on this "footing" That means, the WALL on the footing does NOT bear on the floor joists...hmmmmm, P U L L EEEEEESE tell me or tear open a wall or something to show this condition. From this little analysis, it tells me the whole floor framing is either bearing on a SEPERATE and old stone "foundation" that runs parallel to the footing...or something..

I really need confirmation or clarification of this condition. AND, I need to know this condition at all three exterior wall/foundation/footings. When you get back to me on this, I can proceed. It would be IDEAL, if you could draw a vertical section through each of these walls/footings. I can't see the condition beyond the door in that photo.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello again Scott. Say, can you OPEN that EXTERIOR door that is in that picture, and take a picture of the floor in relationship to the footing? If my intuition is correct, then only TWO options exist as to this condition....either:

The bottom of the door is flush with the floor as it looks like there is a threshold. If thats the case, then the floor framing is BELOW the footing, which means the area below the floor has been excavated quite deeply to allow a 1 foot distance between the dirt and the floor joists.

OR, the door actually covers the floor framing and you step DOWN from the floor through this door.

Either way, I really need to know what the hell is going on herer. VERY wierd condition. IF, the wall plates are fastened to the floor, and the floor joists bear on this footing, then this door really covers a quite high step. And if thats the case, well, you have a really wierd condition at this door.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

This is what I mean. Here are two sections through the footing looking towards the door from the inside.

This is the first implication:

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

OR, here is the second implication. Please clarify as soon as possible.

 

[girvan]

Thanks Rick - I really appreciate you putting all this effort into this for a complete stranger.
It's Sunday and I am going to do my best to get answers asap.
Scot.

 

[girvan]

In fact, I'm a little confused about the "addition" too. Is this WHOLE extension off the house the "new" addition(including the laundry and entry), or is the "studio" space "added" on to the laundry/entry portion later?

Hi Rick, the whole extension off the house is the new addition. I'm going to do my best to get alot more photos and insight today.

Thanks and take care.
Scott.

 

[girvan]

I haven't had the time to open anything up yet (hopefully tonight) but I did take come photos at noon. These are of the west end looking at the footing. Not really a footing at all. Looks more like an afterthought. The guy I bought the house from lives nextdoor. He's not home much but if I can talk to him he might know how it was built.

Here are the pics
Below: Looking down the back of the complete house

The bottom corner of the shot above

This blue concrete runs around the complete perimeter of the house but it is interupted by the 3 doors the house has.

My screwgun is charging. I should be able to open up the floor and a wall this evening. I hope.

Thanks again.
Scott.

 

[FajitaTone]

Hey! Nice bike!

 

[girvan]

Thanks Fajita, Gets great fuel milage.
OK Rick, I've done a small biopsy on the wall behind the blue door (when the door is open.) I have to clear out the room to lift the floor. From this though I can definately say that the blue concrete footer thing is more of a skirt. It does not have anything built on it.
Here are a few photos.

Thanks. I'll do my best to get a cross section tomorrow.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I haven't had the time to open anything up yet (hopefully tonight) but I did take come photos at noon.

Terrific. The next to last photo of the open door tells me what I wanted to know. Just as I figured, the floor is pretty much level with the exterior slabwork. The so called footing is a joke. I've seen this done a few times. What they've done, is make it easy to die the siding into something, as the old foundation was probably a mishmash of different materials and covering it up with a continuous concrete "filler" makes it look better and seals any cracks etc in the old foundation. Although, it does create a bad situation where water can seep under the exterior siding and down into what ever is behind it if the joint isn't sealed good. Anyway, thats the main thing I needed for now. At least I know where the floor is in relationship to the ground.
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

You musta posted those last pics just before I posted my reply. Ha! Anyway, that helps as well. We'll get this thing figured out soon.

 

[girvan]

Cool. Yeah rott. I reached in wall and under the floor and I could tear the joists with my hands. It crumbled. Not good. I also found a nice mouse nest in the insulation.
Talk again soon. Thanks again.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Although, it does create a bad situation where water can seep under the exterior siding and down into what ever is behind it if the joint isn't sealed good.

I was right. What I didn't know was the concrete "skirt" is right up against the studs. NO protection from moisture. It looks like dryrot from leakage has already occured. Man, I hate to say it, but you may have some hairy repairs to do before any construction can begin. For one, to gain mass on the exterior leaf, I was going to suggest placing two layers of drywall between the studs. But now....... Can't have that moisture situation with drywall. Even on the interior leaf.

Scott, before I put any more work into this, it would be wise to wait untill you remove ALL the OSB on the walls. You probably need to do this anyway. Man, if thats what the WHOLE house is like...good grief. I also think you need to talk to the guy that sold this to you. If thats any indication of the rest of the work there... I'd be asking some serious questions. Anyway, I'll be here when your done with that portion of the demo. Good luck.
fitZ

 

[girvan]

Fun eh? Cool. I will get to it. We bought the house and 1 acre of land for under 60k. You get what you pay for. I know for a fact that I don't have a budget to rebuild. Maybe I should just make some DIY traps, patch up the wall and put the house 4sale. Seriously, I'm going to have my contractor friend drop by and help me out. I'll definately be in touch. I really appreciate your help.

Scott.

 

[girvan]

Hi Rick,
I have decided not to go ahead with a complete demo of the room. Mainly for financial reasons. As much as I want to build a studio, knowing that I'll most likely have to rebuild that section of the house to gain the isolation I want has made me rethink this project. I don't want to invest thousands of dollars into this house.

I want to thank you for helping me. Thank you.

As for my present room. I think I will simply treat it with some DIY traps, try to get a decent sound and forget about isolation. In your opinion, should I at least seal up the existing doors and build a wall/frame to cover the windows? Can offer any suggestions of sound improvement without trying to gain any amount of isolation?

What I am also considering is building a portable studio, ie: studio in a trailer. My wife and I plan to resell this old house within 5 years. I have seen posts here and on JSayers of builds inside of cube vans, containers and other odd vehicules. I am going to pursue that idea...on paper to begin with.

Thanks again. I look forward to any insights based on this new direction.
Scott.

 

[girvan]

Hey Rick, I've been searching around and found this old post of yours:

Yea, go here. Harvey's studio is in a gutted mobile home. He is a long time PRO engineer, and has a PRO studio in there. Ask him about it. BTW, his BIG MIC THREAD, is also posted here in the Mic forum. He IS the mic expert.

Any chance that there's anymore info? The link is dead. Maybe a website for the studio or information.

I just came across this too

Its not the acoustics that you should worry about. Its isolation if you need it where the trailer is. There is virtually none as the construction of mobil homes are very lightweight assemblys, and are close to impossible to really beef up as the framing, especially the roof/ceiling structural elements are to lightweight to add any significant mass to. However, transmission through the floor is another issue even if you could beef up the walls and ceiling. And since this is
ONE LEAF assembly on a frame that cannot be sealed with an exterior leaf, its virtually a drum head that not only has close to zero transmission loss, also will resonate at its natural frequency. So I hope isolation isn't a problem.

As far as acoustics is concerned, in very small spaces, there is virtually zero ambiance anyway, but TERRIBLE modal issues are notorious. SERIOUS corner absorption via superchunks, and broadband absorption will help. If isolation isn't a problem, then low frequency leakage is your friend as well. What escapes to the outside world is one less thing to deal with inside, although you will still have modal problems.

.

I think for now I will stick to getting the best sound I can w/o isolation in the dryRott room. That should be the name: DRYROTT STUDIO

 

[Bill Furnett]

Your situation is a real heartbreaker Givan, but on the brightside you probally saved yourself a ton of time and cash and possibly medical expenses by not sinking through the floor while pulling the addition instruments and all down on top of you.

Can you possibly build a garage (if you don't have one) to use as a studio which will add value to the house when it's time to sell, or even have a car port errected and then use your exsisting garage?

Never give up.

 

[girvan]

Thanks Bill.
I won't give up. This has been a dream for 15 years. Right now it's a matter of $$$, or lack of it. If I had 10K I would build something. As for now, looks like I will have to settle on bass traps, a cloud, some first reflection absorbers and try to get a good sound that way. Maybe the profit from my first album will pay for the studio!