Phase shift sounding problem on my bass drum - Cubase, Saffire Pro

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Iamisandisnt

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Hey there, first time post here so I hope I don't mess up any proper etiquette and such..

I'm using a quad-core PC 1.4 ghz with 4 gigs ram, no problems there...

FocusRite Saffire Pro 26 In/Out ... it's a firewire interface, got 8 XLR mics, two with pre-amps on the Saffire Pro. Seems to be working well.

Running through Cubase SX3, and while recording the bass drum, we found this odd sound... positioning seems to have an effect, but the professional(amateur) sound engineer I had come over to check out my mix settings, and he noticed what he calls a "phase shift" sound from the kick drum primarily.

I'm using a Shure drum-mic set up, and we tried changing all sorts of mics, cables, and inputs on the interface.

Here's a recording of just the mic drum - note that there's no phase shifting coming from other mics in this mix- bc it's not a mix - only one microphone was recording and only the kick drum was being played. The only thing that changes is who is kicking it and where the mic is positioned.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know... anything that could adjust and/or eliminate this would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks

-Peace
 
jono77 said:
try moving the mic outside the drum.
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Thanks for the quick response, but I did try that. The second set of bass hits that you hear was from outside the drum. The first was deep inside, and the third was just inside the front.
 
So align the transients inside cubase so that the tracks are in phase. Align them all to a single source like the top snare mic.
 
Supercreep said:
So align the transients inside cubase so that the tracks are in phase. Align them all to a single source like the top snare mic.
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Yup.....using the snare is the center, you might need to do some nudging of tracks to get rid of phase.
 
Supercreep said:
So align the transients inside cubase so that the tracks are in phase. Align them all to a single source like the top snare mic.
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I don't really know what a transient is, can you explain how to work with them in Cubase?

I am only recording one track at a time and still receiving a phase sound - I don't think it's a mixing/tracking error, if that's what you mean.

Any way a single track can phase with itself through Cubase or the audio interface?
 
Iamisandisnt said:
..I am only recording one track at a time and still receiving a phase sound -
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Are you saying they, and that your problem happens, from only the base drum mic by itself?

...Any way a single track can phase with itself through Cubase or the audio interface?
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..if that is the case then no. Tone changes caused by phase happen when you combine the same sound from two or more locations -from one being delayed from what ever reason- A 'phase shifter' -a short sweeping delay mixed with the straight sound. Kick mic 1 foot away + over head mic 3 feet way, one overhead mic and a hard wall near by, etc.
 
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40-45 sounds decent, then when you start hitting harder it goes right back to less low end and that very sharp ring. What mic? No compression?
Kicks do lean out when hit firmer.
Could be one of the mics with built in extreme tone shapes + the drum tuning?
 
Thanks for all the responses, guys, this has been a big help so far. I haven't found anything conclusive, but the microphone I'm using is a Shure PG-52 "tuned to capture low-end punch." (http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_PG52-XLR_content) *Edit: no compression on it either

So you're saying there could be no phasing problem? Does it sound like a phasing problem to you? This IS only ONE microphone, one track recorded, just the bass drum. Is this sound engineer full of bull, and trying to wrack up hours in the studio, or do we have a genuine sound issue?
 
Iamisandisnt said:
Thanks for all the responses, guys, this has been a big help so far. I haven't found anything conclusive, but the microphone I'm using is a Shure PG-52 "tuned to capture low-end punch." (http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_PG52-XLR_content) *Edit: no compression on it either

So you're saying there could be no phasing problem? Does it sound like a phasing problem to you? This IS only ONE microphone, one track recorded, just the bass drum. Is this sound engineer full of bull, and trying to wrack up hours in the studio, or do we have a genuine sound issue?
Click to expand...

Tone changes caused by phase happen when you combine the same sound from two or more locations.. or other source of delay.

Is that happening there?

Eliminate the variables.
Verify- Can you record anything with that same mic/signal chain that doesn't sound hollow and ringy'?
Can you compare other mics (flatter?

Maybe the drum just sounds like that with that mic.

Have you tried tuning the drum so that it doesn't ring' and isn't there a point somewhere around the hole where there is a substantial amount of low freq air to pick up?
 
Iamisandisnt said:
I don't really know what a transient is, can you explain how to work with them in Cubase?

I am only recording one track at a time and still receiving a phase sound - I don't think it's a mixing/tracking error, if that's what you mean.

Any way a single track can phase with itself through Cubase or the audio interface?
Click to expand...

A sound can only be out of phase in relationship to another sound.

Take two tracks and enlarge them to the point where you can move one track to line up perfectly with the other.

How do you record drums one track at a time? :confused:
 
Supercreep said:
How do you record drums one track at a time? :confused:
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He just recorded the kick drum in this example by itself one mic one track so we could hear what he is talking about. I don't think that he is suggesting that he tries to track his drums one drum at a time.

I can't listen to the sample because I'm at work but if you hear the issue you are describing when you play back the kick drum(recorded with one mic) by itself then it is NOT a phase issue. As has already been stated something can only be out of phase in relation to something else. So one track recorded with one mic can never be out of phase.
 
Yonce N Mild said:
He just recorded the kick drum in this example by itself one mic one track so we could hear what he is talking about. I don't think that he is suggesting that he tries to track his drums one drum at a time.
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Correct.

Well thank you, everybody. I've since moved the microphone around and we're trying new things. I'll report back if we have successful results!
 
I think it would be better for us to hear your drum tracks together in the mix. bounce down just the drums and upload an mp3. We can't help you by listening to the unaffected, isolated kick drum you've posted. As said before, if this is a phase issue, there needs to be other microphones picking up the same sound sources.


I do have a couple of suspiscions as to what the problems could be, but I would need to hear the actual problem you're hearing.... send us a file of the entire drum mix.


Also, tell us how many tracks you're recording and with what microphones (only the ones on the drum set). Help us help you.
 
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The audio file is reaaaaaally quiet. I can't tell if it's a bass drum or somebody tapping on a mic stand.
 
Supercreep said:
The audio file is reaaaaaally quiet. I can't tell if it's a bass drum or somebody tapping on a mic stand.
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Turn it up for cryin out loud!:D 'Bonk --eeee, bonk --eee', quite talking in background... :)
To wing it sonically here- think 'AKG D112'ish, on a basket ball. :)
 
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