Solved Phase problem?

[danny.guitar]

Well I went back to record some more tracks on an unfinished mix.

I just got a new acoustic so I wanted to double-up the rhythm tracks, so I'd have the sound of 2 different guitars in there.

My timing is fine, but there's like a reverb sounding effect going on when I play them both back at the same time. (of course, with no effects on them). I just solo'd these 2 tracks and it sounds like reverb/chorus.

Is this "comb filtering" or something caused by phase?

Can this be caused by using 2 different mic placements for each part?

Does mic position/distance have to be almost exact for both tracks?

Should I consider getting a mic with less room sound?

Sorry for all the questions, but this song is almost finished and this is holding me back.

 

[bennychico11]

Is this "comb filtering" or something caused by phase?

most likely, yes. But not "bad" phase. Remember, phase is a natural occurence. It happens all aroudn us. There is no way to avoid phase...but whether or not it is harming your mix, is up to you.
More likely it's actually just a chorus sound. Which is what you'd expect from recording a guitar part twice. Except this is more of a natural chorus than anything. Since human beings are not perfect and there is no way you're going to play the guitar part 100% exact each time...there are going to be some variances that make it sound different. When you blend it together with the first guitar the timbre and pitches are going to be similar, but not exact. So it sounds like two instruments playing the same part. If you don't like the way it sounds, try blending it differently. Different EQs on both tracks, panning them opposite...one louder, one softer, etc.

Can this be caused by using 2 different mic placements for each part?
Does mic position/distance have to be almost exact for both tracks?

yes and no. moving the microphone around between takes can give you a totally new/different sound....but since you are recording the guitar part twice anyway, you're probably going for that "different" sound


maybe if you posted a link of the guitar sample, we might be able to hear what you are hearing.

 

[Nicole_Rose]

Well I went back to record some more tracks on an unfinished mix.

I just got a new acoustic so I wanted to double-up the rhythm tracks, so I'd have the sound of 2 different guitars in there.

My timing is fine, but there's like a reverb sounding effect going on when I play them both back at the same time. (of course, with no effects on them). I just solo'd these 2 tracks and it sounds like reverb/chorus.

Is this "comb filtering" or something caused by phase?

Can this be caused by using 2 different mic placements for each part?

Does mic position/distance have to be almost exact for both tracks?

Should I consider getting a mic with less room sound?

Sorry for all the questions, but this song is almost finished and this is holding me back.

that natural chorus sound can also be achieved when the two guitars aren't perfectly tuned to each other. chances are you tuned properly but just in case.....

 

[mixsit]

Is this "comb filtering" or something caused by phase?

Can this be caused by using 2 different mic placements for each part?

Does mic position/distance have to be almost exact for both tracks?

Just to zero in on where each of these questions seem to be centered, the answer would be no. The second recording could have the 'chorus effect, but in it's meaning of 'multiple voices'.
The comb filtering, mic distances and such generally point to the recording of one event with mixed time paths. This leaves you with a lot more latitude doubling a second and always different take.

Should I consider getting a mic with less room sound?

Maybe, but that would address ambient, airy, Vs direct and up front(?)

Wayne
Also to add, the comb filter/phase effects of two unequal mic distances is basically a steady state affair, where you might expect a doubled part to have some movement going on.

 

[danny.guitar]

Thanks for the replies. I guess it's not the mic placement then.

I always tune up perfectly before recording a take, so I know it's not the tuning.

Both guitars sound really different (one more bright, the other dark/bassy).

I guess the effect wasn't so much chorus as it was reverb, and even a "flanger" kind of sound.

I'll try to post a sample of it soon so you can hear what I'm talking about.

I'm also considering getting a budget/affordable mic for acoustic guitar with less room sound (Shure SM57?).

The MSH-1 mics are great and I couldn't be happier with the sound, but condensers just pick up too much room sound, and in my small, untreated room that can be a problem.

I really want an up-front/in your face kind of sound.

 

[mixsit]

How about hang some heavy blankets around the mic and guitar. They won't suck up bass but will help with acoustic guit and voice frequencies.
How far are you micing?

 

[danny.guitar]

Unfortunately, that's not an option. I have nowhere to hang the blankets.

I'm micing about 2-4" away from the guitar. Any further and I get too much ambience and the guitar won't sit well in the mix.

I've also tried a lot of mic positions and that's what's worked best for me as far as sound quality goes.

 

[mixsit]

Unfortunately, that's not an option. I have nowhere to hang the blankets.

I was just thinking something to make a little sectioned off area?

 

[danny.guitar]

I was just thinking something to make a little sectioned off area?

Yea that's a good idea. I don't have a lot of room for that, but it would be nice. I may work on something like that soon.

But for the meantime, I could use another mic. Do you think the SM57 would give good results on an acoustic guitar? I've heard they do but I've never actually heard any samples.

I figure I'd ask here instead of having to make another thread in the mic forum.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Dynamics kinda suck for acoustic guitar unless you are going for a darker sound. Your best bet is treating the room like has been suggested.

 

[mattamatta]

First thing that comes to mind for me, is that that's just the way double tracked stuff sounds.... it's basically makes things sound bigger by creating a chorus type effect that only comes from having the same thing played multiple times... it does have a more deep, broad sound and you lose the focus of one single point, which is the right sound for a lot of things, but the wrong sound for others.