"perception of tempo change?"

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chinglnc

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I'm doing some research on "perception of tempo" when listening music by headphones or over the speakers.

I have some sound engineer friends claimed that they "perceived tempo changes" when listening by headphone and over the speakers.

When I meant by "tempo changes" here, is the "perception" the tempo of the music is different when you listen via headphones and speakers. (same piece of music)

It might sound " this is impossbile", but personally, me and a few sound engineers do perceive some "Tempo changes" when listening by headphones and speakers.

It's not a Drastic Tempo Changes, just the "perception" of the tempo is different, either listening by headphones are faster; listening over speakers are slower or vice verses.

"perception of tempo change"= e.g. Original music - 120 bmp; Listening over speakers - perceived 120bmp; Listening by headphones- perceived 125bmp

But certainly we are not sure how many ppl out there perceive the same oracles or similar experience.

or

could any of you try with this,

1. Get a piece of music that you really know well, with prominent rhythm sections, and fast tempo (130bpm and above)

2. try to "cover" or "close" your tragus while listening, also try with your pinna (or simply to say, try to cover/open different parts of your ears)

3. Stand further way from your speakers, or simply go out of your rooms, shut the door and listen from outside, you could try to walk further away from your room , see if there is any perception of tempo changing. (this part you don't hv to do steps 2)

do the listening tests over speakers only.

The perception of tempo change sounds very prominent to me. So, wondering if any of you guys hv the similar perception?
 
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Not sure I understand. Are they "percieving" tempo changes that are there, like little fluctations in the tempo. Or are they "percieving" tempo changes that aren't there???
 
Mmm..something like either headphones are slower; speakers are faster or vice verses.....
 
sounds crazy to me.

there's no way what speakers you use (no matter how small) will determine the playback tempo.
 
When I meant by "tempo changes" here, is the "perception" the tempo of the music is different when you listen via headphones and speakers. (same piece of music)

It might sound " this is impossbile", but personally, me and a few sound engineers do perceive some "Tempo changes" when listening by headphones and speakers.

It's not a Drastic Tempo Changes, just the "perception" of the tempo is different, either listening by headphones are faster; listening over speakers are slower or vice verses.

"perception of tempo change"= e.g. Original music - 120 bmp; Listening over speakers - perceived 120bmp; Listening by headphones- perceived 125bmp

But certainly we are not sure how many ppl out there perceive the same oracles or similar experience.

just wondering any of you hv similar experience??

p.s- I need to emphasize that is the "perception" of tempo is changing, and not the actual tempo of music is changing



Thanks.
 
I can understand "pitch" changes. I've noticed that if I have a set of headphones sitting on the desk, and I can hear the music coming out of them...If I lift them to my ears and put them on, the pitch seems to rise about a semi-tone from what I thought I was hearing before putting them on. (I wonder if that has a name....Some kind of Doppler effect :eek: )

I've never experienced tempo changes with phones, though. Not saying others haven't, I just never experienced it myself. Ihave noticed that sometimes listening to a song first thing in the morning, it sometimes seemse alot faster than I remember it from the night before.
 
RAMI said:
I can understand "pitch" changes. I've noticed that if I have a set of headphones sitting on the desk, and I can hear the music coming out of them...If I lift them to my ears and put them on, the pitch seems to rise about a semi-tone from what I thought I was hearing before putting them on. (I wonder if that has a name....Some kind of Doppler effect :eek: )

I've never experienced tempo changes with phones, though. Not saying others haven't, I just never experienced it myself. Ihave noticed that sometimes listening to a song first thing in the morning, it sometimes seemse alot faster than I remember it from the night before.
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oh really??? that sound interesting to me....

well, there is another way to "perceive the tempo changes"....could you

try it if you are free??


1. Get a piece of music that you really know well, with prominent

rhythm sections, and fast tempo (130bpm and above)

2. try to "cover" or "close" your tragus

while listening, also try with your pinna (or simply to say, try to cover/open different parts of

your ears)

3. Stand further way from your speakers, or simply go out of your

rooms, shut the door and listen from outside, you could try to walk

further away from your room , see if there is any perception of tempo

changing. (this part you don't hv to do steps 2)

do the listening tests over speakers only.

The perception of tempo change sounds very prominent to me. So,

wondering if any of you guys hv the similar perception?
 
I have never noticed such an effect, nor have I ever heard of it, and I am very sceptical of it. That said, here is a speculation off the top of my head...

One thing that listening in phones and listening to loudspeakers from another room have in common is that they both tend to emphasize the bass frequencies in their own way. Is it perhaps possible that the perceived tempo "change" is an effect of the fact that the actual tempo is more readily evident in the thump of the rhythm section? The tempo being more readily noticable might simply bring more attention to it, and the less-discriminating ear may be tricked into thinking that increased focus on the tempo somehow equates to an increase in it's rate?

I'm not saying I buy into that idea, but It's all I can think of off hand as an even remotely possible explanation.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I have never noticed such an effect, nor have I ever heard of it, and I am very sceptical of it. That said, here is a speculation off the top of my head...

One thing that listening in phones and listening to loudspeakers from another room have in common is that they both tend to emphasize the bass frequencies in their own way. Is it perhaps possible that the perceived tempo "change" is an effect of the fact that the actual tempo is more readily evident in the thump of the rhythm section? The tempo being more readily noticable might simply bring more attention to it, and the less-discriminating ear may be tricked into thinking that increased focus on the tempo somehow equates to an increase in it's rate?

I'm not saying I buy into that idea, but It's all I can think of off hand as an even remotely possible explanation.

G.
Click to expand...

Mmm...i like your ideas.....just wondering hv u tried with the above listening test???it should be quite prominent to most ppl........did u perceive the tempo change?
 
chinglnc said:
Mmm...i like your ideas.....just wondering hv u tried with the above listening test???it should be quite prominent to most ppl........did u perceive the tempo change?
Click to expand...

tried your test, and didn't notice a difference at all.
sounds like it's all in your head ;)
 
bennychico11 said:
tried your test, and didn't notice a difference at all.
sounds like it's all in your head ;)
Click to expand...

Mmm...that's sounds interesting to me......thanks for ur ideas...if you thought out your head of some other possible reasons....do come back to this threaddddddd!!!!!!
 
poppycock and hogwash. I think we're being played. Something doesn't smell right.
 
I have this awesome green marker for coloring the edges of CD's

And a CD that degausses speaker cables
 
chinglnc said:
I have some sound engineer friends claimed that they "perceived tempo changes" when listening by headphone and over the speakers.


It might sound " this is impossbile", but personally, me and a few sound engineers do perceive some "Tempo changes" when listening by headphones and speakers.

But certainly we are not sure how many ppl out there perceive the same oracles or similar experience.
Click to expand...

It just you and the sound engineers. 3-4 people out of 6 billion.:D:D:D

I know my CDs backwards and forwards, I could tell if one/tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a nanosecond was different. It aint.

Perhaps you have confused this with the Doppler Effect, although that really doesnt make sense either as it takes a good distance for that to work. Google it. Better yet I will for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect
 
Because the sound waves coming from the speaker meet with resistance which increases over distance and time where as the travelling of a sound wave inside h/phones is relatively short & given the quality of the warmed, slightly moist nature of the air trapped inside h/phones as opposed to the realtive humidity, thermal currents and absorbant/reflective surfaces of the listening room I could only venture that the perceived variation of tempo, vis a vis your initial confection, is indeed o realtively minor variation of that common, yet rarely acknowledged phenomena, generally referred to as a tug.
 
rayc said:
Because the sound waves coming from the speaker meet with resistance which increases over distance and time where as the travelling of a sound wave inside h/phones is relatively short & given the quality of the warmed, slightly moist nature of the air trapped inside h/phones as opposed to the realtive humidity, thermal currents and absorbant/reflective surfaces of the listening room I could only venture that the perceived variation of tempo, vis a vis your initial confection, is indeed o realtively minor variation of that common, yet rarely acknowledged phenomena, generally referred to as a tug.
Click to expand...

In other words, it's Einstein's theory of relative humidity. :D
I think Shroeder's cat may be involved too. ;)
 
I've never experienced a "perceived" tempo change but, like RAMI, I have noticed a "perceived" pitch change which can make it complicated when tracking singing while monitoring thru headphones.


chazba
 
Robert D said:
In other words, it's Einstein's theory of relative humidity. :D
I think Shroeder's cat may be involved too. ;)
Click to expand...
With all the talk of absorbtave/reflective surfaces, I think one may also apply the Dusenberg un-curtain-ty principle too. (*groan*)

:D

G.
 
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actually.."pitch change" would affect "tempo change" i guess...

is it lower pitch in headphone or higher? and what would be the reason for the pitch change?
 
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