Overhead Help

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Bguzaldo

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I'm using two fairly decent LDCs for my overheads a rode nt1000 and a GT 67, both decent condensers. Decent enough. Im using the Glyn Johns technique and I just seem to be getting way to much Cymbals and not enough of the set itself. I tried stepping up my sound absorbing considerably, stapling blankets to the ceiling, stuffing the frames I made for sound proofing with more padding, putting a mattress in front of the set. Still am not getting enough decent snare sound to use without the addition of a snare mic. I still use a snare mic I just don't want to be as dependent on it as I am. I'm running everything just straight into a firepod and want to make it clear I'm no longer the typical n00b blaming his gear for everything. So what could I do technique wise to improve this?

Thanks
-Barrett
 
Stop hitting like a girl.




Seriously though - There are certainly cymbals out there that are just too damn loud - But there are plenty of drummers who hit like they're afraid of breaking something.

Mic adjustment - most certainly. But if the cymbals are too loud, use softer cymbals and/or hit the skins like the hammer of Thor.

That, and you might want to try SMALL condensers... Much easier to deal with IMO.
 
Massive Master said:
Stop hitting like a girl.




Seriously though - There are certainly cymbals out there that are just too damn loud - But there are plenty of drummers who hit like they're afraid of breaking something.

Mic adjustment - most certainly. But if the cymbals are too loud, use softer cymbals and/or hit the skins like the hammer of Thor.

That, and you might want to try SMALL condensers... Much easier to deal with IMO.
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvX4DMU11G4&feature=related !!!!

haha, thanks though for the help, I'll have to look into some SDCs

-Barrett
 
it's important to be in a good room for drums not just absorbing sound. the higher the ceilings the better and open space is good. the way the room sounds will have a lot to do with the sound of your snare and everything else because the overheads are pulled back from the source. also don't point the mics directly at the cymbals, i usually point one at the hi-hat and the other at the lowest tom. the cymbals are loud so they'll pick up fine a little off axis. i use small condensor mics, a pair, and set them up on both sides of the kit pointing across from each other. i also got a good tom sound from this setup, no tom mics.
 
I agree with John - when you're using the Glyn John's method, it's all about mic placement and where they are aimed, since you're relying on the OH's for about 75% of your overall drum sound. I use this technique myself when mic'ing acoustic drums. The OH above and to my left gets pointed at the spot where the snare drum, rack tom, and bass drum meet. The OH to my right is about 12" above & outside my floor tom rim and points back to the rack tom.

I respectfully disagree, though, that you would need to change the mic's you're using. With the Glyn John's method, I almost always use LDC's since the OH mic's are responsible for picking up the low's of your toms and the body of the snare just as much as they need to pick up the cymbals. If you were close-mic'ing each drum, then a pencil condenser would absolutely be the way to go, but probably not when you only have four mic's on the whole kit.
 
I respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement -- :eek: :D

The faster transient response, better off-axis response and extended low end of SDC's are precisely why I'd rather use them as overheads. Although admittedly, I tend to put a LDC (more often, a ribbon) out center as a room mic (where transient response isn't an issue, but
 
You could try micing more from the back rather than above.

You can maintain the equal distance from each mic to the snare, but rotate them back, even behind the drummer (like over each of his shoulders). Getting the mics lower might get more meat.

If the mics are up high, the simple fact is that they will probably be closer to the cymbals. You can't fight physics. Get the snare closer to the mics than the cymbals.
 
Well, then I suppose we'll agree to disagree. :o

Something tells me you're probably using a different caliber SDC than I am. For my purposes, a couple of AT-2020 LDC's do the trick quite nicely... but I will bow to the master. :)

Barrett - John's the man. He's probably right on this one...
 
Don't think of it as disagreeing -- Some people want a different sound. And some mics do pick up better off axis. 414's as overheads can be very nice - But again, it doesn't pick up "the kit" (IMO/E) as well as a pair of 81's might. Something like Avenson STO's will give you The Kit like few mics ever could - But they're going to give you The Room in startling clarity also.
 
Thanks a lot guys, I have a lot to work with hear. I'm definitely going to have to toy around with placement a bit first considering that's free, I was thinking about taking my set into a bigger room considering I'm using a firepod and a laptop, then if I'm still unsatisfied I may have to go shopping for some SDCs, maybe tune my drums up even haha

Thanks a pantsfull to all
-Barrett
 
You might also try some heavy limiting on the overhead mics. That can really help the cymbal/drum balance. The Glynn Johns technique is great but you will always need a kick and snare mic if you want any type of modern sound.
 
TexRoadkill said:
The Glynn Johns technique is great but you will always need a kick and snare mic if you want any type of modern sound.
Click to expand...

I might be wrong, but I think that unlike the Recorderman method, the Glyn Johns method includes the kik and snare mic as a standrard part of the set up. :cool:
 
get drumagog and put drumagog on each one of your drum tracks - one for the kick, one for the snare, one for each tom. this will bring out the drum presence AMAZINGLY. it sounds extremely professional...and yet it doens't sound like an electric drumset because your mixing in your natural/real cymbal sounds which are picking up the original snare too...it becomes an awesome blend and your cymbals will seem like they are not overpowering your drums....it will come out awesome believe me it has changed my recordings 100% ...you will not be dissapointed with this program.
 
Hyperslug said:
get drumagog and put drumagog on each one of your drum tracks - one for the kick, one for the snare, one for each tom. this will bring out the drum presence AMAZINGLY. it sounds extremely professional...and yet it doens't sound like an electric drumset because your mixing in your natural/real cymbal sounds which are picking up the original snare too...it becomes an awesome blend and your cymbals will seem like they are not overpowering your drums....it will come out awesome believe me it has changed my recordings 100% ...you will not be dissapointed with this program.
Click to expand...

....not on overheads.
 
He would have to copy the overhead tracks (one for each tom) and chop them up into pieces to trigger each tom individually.
 
yeah farview and Rami....i must have worded that wrong...definitely no drumagog on the cymbals. just on the snare, kick and toms. keep the cymbals 100 percent real (except for added reverb and eq...etc)
 
The room sound is important and so is the quality of the kit / cymbals and most important the skill of the player.

Set up the kit on a hard floor, using a small rug is OK. Put an acoustic cloud above the kit to take out splash back from the ceiling, unless you have very high ceilings then it won't be a problem. There are other threads on this site talking about clouds.

If the cymbals are still too loud, try putting the overheads through a compressor, if using 2 overheads use a stereo compressor with the 2 channels linked. Try a fast attack and fast release and wind up the ratio until it holds back the cymbal hit but lets the drums through. If the compressor has a soft knee setting use it. Nothing is set in concrete her, try changing the settings if you don't like the results. Remember there are no rules.

Cheers

Alan.
 
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