Optimal angle for monitor viewing?

[pdlstl]

I'm getting ready to begin construction of a custom desk to hold my recording gear.

I want my video monitors inset into the desktop.

Does anyone know of a good angle to use for my intended purpose?

See drawing...

Thanks.

 

[notbradsohner]

A well-designed chair will favorably affect posture, circulation and the extent of strain on the spine. The chair should allow you to place your feet firmly on the floor or a foot rest, with your hips slightly flexed and your knees at a 60-90 degrees angle. The seat should be comfortably wide, and the backrest about six to nine inches high and 12 inches or more wide in the lumbar region.

Most chairs used by computer users has adjustments to make it comfortable to sit on, but few people bother to adjust it. Spending a little time learning how to adjust the chair and set it correctly can go a long way in preventing back pain. With the hips at 90 degrees. However, a great deal of recent research supports the idea of a much wider hip angle -- with 130 degrees or so as an "optimum" angle. The reason? When the hips are straightened, the vertebrae of the lower spine are aligned with each other in a way that reduces and evens out pressure on the intervertebral discs. Further, sitting upright is less desirable than reclining. When reclining, the lower back muscles work less and the spine supports less weight, since body weight is held up by the chair's backrest.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

notbradsohner, I'm really concerned about you. At 15, if you keep going this way your libel to have data overload by 20

 

[pdlstl]

Thanks for the great information.

However, I'm wanting to know what is the optimum (or standard) angle to mount the video monitors in the desk.

Anyone?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello pdlstl. There is NO optimum angle, because EVERYONE is different. Chair height, people height, computer height etc. MY solution would be to build in a monitor deck with a pivot and lockdown. That way its adjustable. There are commercial hardware brackets that you can buy to build things like this. I'll try to locate them for you tonight. Since I am a detailer I have tons of sources.
BTW, the drawing is only for illustration. I doesn't show everything nor is it perfect.
fitZ

 

[pdlstl]

There are commercial hardware brackets that you can buy to build things like this. I'll try to locate them for you tonight. Since I am a detailer I have tons of sources.
fitZ

That would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

 

[pdlstl]

Why wouldn't this work?

Seems fairly simple.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Why wouldn't this work?

Yea, why wouldn't that work?
Hey pdlstl, hows the new studio comin. That building is fantastic. The name of that town sounds like an old western. hahahahaha! I love it. Still with the same band I hope. Good luck with the project and the studio.
fitZ

 

[pdlstl]

Just took possession of the building the first of this month. Getting the utilities turned on and will begin construction April 1.

I'm going to end up with:

1. 12x17 control room
2. 12x24 live room
3. 12x14 live room
4. 2 - 9x12 iso booths

All with 12' ceilings.

I ready to get going but still have 2 projects to finish in old space before I can move everything.

Still singing and playing mando with Blue Valley

 

[brzilian]

Hello pdlstl. There is NO optimum angle, because EVERYONE is different. Chair height, people height, computer height etc. MY solution would be to build in a monitor deck with a pivot and lockdown. That way its adjustable. There are commercial hardware brackets that you can buy to build things like this. I'll try to locate them for you tonight. Since I am a detailer I have tons of sources.
BTW, the drawing is only for illustration. I doesn't show everything nor is it perfect.
fitZ

Not entirely true. ADA guidelines for public display terminals (kiosks) state that a computer display should be tilted back no more than 15 degrees as to aviod ambient glare interfereing with the display.

General ergonomic guidelines for the workplace also state that the top edge of your display should be at or below eye level to reduce neck strain injury.

You should also be able to touch your computer screen with your arms almost fully extended. Anything closer or further can lead to headaches and eye strain.

I worked in both the kiosk and furniture industry as a designer and applied these principles on a daily basis.

http://www.office-ergo.com/setting.htm

 

[frederic]

I don't know why anyone would want their monitor tilted down.

I had tried that once before and I ended up with poor posture sitting in front if, with a nice daily sore neck.

I put them in front, the center of the tubes in line (horizintally) with me eyes.

If you're worried about glare from lights, get an anti-glare filter or screen.

And PDL - your design there has a defect. The flat stock should not be bolted with one bolt, either use two, or take the flat stock and make it 2" longer, and bend 2" over like an angle bracket.

As your design works loose, the bottom will slide right, allowing the monitor to tilt backwards even more, putting more load on the piano hinge until the monitor is almost vertical.

A better option would be to adjust the height using four pieces of bar stock, drilled in one in increments, then put the bolts through the stock into the shelf itself (or angle iron under the shelf) at 15 degrees, then adjust the height of the monitor that way.

Most monitors have provision for a screw-on monitor stand, even though they come with a plastic snap-on stand. If yours does, you can make a metal plate that bolts through those holes, then purchase a monitor arm to mount it in. Instead of bolting the arm to the top of the desk, you bolt it underneath. Then you can adjust height, angle, and left to right to your liking.

 

[punkin]

I prefer mine straight ahead especially if mixing in the PC...this way I can keep my head up while listening and making adjustments. But that's just me. I would think that looking down would give me a sore neck after awhile. Let us know what you come out with.

 

[pdlstl]

I don't know why anyone would want their monitor tilted down.

I want them low as to see over them and through control room window.

I put them in front, the center of the tubes in line (horizintally) with me eyes.

The link posted by brzilian cites ergonomic studies which indicate quite the opposite:
"The old guidelines that recommended that the monitor be placed at eye level were based in part on the belief that the resting position of the eyes (considered to be the most comfortable gaze angle) is 15° below the horizontal (Morgan, Cook, Chapanis, and Lund 1963). New evidence (and some that has been around for a while) shows that, while the eyes might be most comfortable with a 15° gaze angle when looking at distant objects, for close objects they prefer a much more downward gaze angle (Kroemer 1997). Figure 1 shows the optimum position for the most important visual display, 20 - 50° below the horizontal line of sight, according to the International Standards Organization (ISO 1998).

As we saw from the above demonstrations, a downward gaze angle improves our ability to accommodate and converge. Ripple (1952) found that subjects over age 42 increased their ability to accommodate by an average of 25.5% by directing their eyes downward in the "usual reading position." Krimsky (1948) observed, "when looking upwards, the eyes tend to diverge...and when they look down, the effort to converge is much easier." Tyrell and Leibowitz (1990) found that a low gaze angle resulted in reduced headaches and eyestrain.".

And PDL - your design there has a defect. The flat stock should not be bolted with one bolt, either use two, or take the flat stock and make it 2" longer, and bend 2" over like an angle bracket.

As your design works loose, the bottom will slide right, allowing the monitor to tilt backwards even more, putting more load on the piano hinge until the monitor is almost vertical.

Indeed I had thought about the flat stock moving slightly no matter if I used star washers/lock washers etc. But my remedy for that was a routed groove in the bottom of the shelf. That's why I had chosen to use one bolt. So the flat stock could indeed swivel. Two different solutions, both viable.

The information provided by brzilian was precisely what I was needing. Now that I have this, I'll just build the monitor shelf inset in the desktop according to the specs from his link.

 

[pdlstl]

I prefer mine straight ahead especially if mixing in the PC...this way I can keep my head up while listening and making adjustments. But that's just me. I would think that looking down would give me a sore neck after awhile. Let us know what you come out with.

I think the idea is to keep your head up and let your gaze fall downward to between 20 and 50 degrees). This would allow you work in the manner you described and prefer.

I'm going to place the monitors about 39" from my eye position and about 25 degrees below horizontal.

I'll let you know

 

[frederic]

I want them low as to see over them and through control room window.

Okay, I'll just say "Doh" and move along. Makes perfect sense to me.

when they look down, the effort to converge is much easier." Tyrell and Leibowitz (1990) found that a low gaze angle resulted in reduced headaches and eyestrain.

Yeah, I've seen some papers on this subject, but I still end up with a sore neck. Though, thinking about it, my monitors aren't directly in front of me. They are in the sense that you can see them there, but I sit in my chair, leaning back a bit, so maybe I'm getting some kind of angle, looking "down" which is really straight ahead, but down because my body is angled in the chair, leaning back. I'll have to think about this some more...

Indeed I had thought about the flat stock moving slightly no matter if I used star washers/lock washers etc. But my remedy for that was a routed groove in the bottom of the shelf. That's why I had chosen to use one bolt. So the flat stock could indeed swivel. Two different solutions, both viable.

Another option is to have flat stock going forward on either side, and you attach the forward end like you've attached the top of the existing flat stock, then put a bolt through both pieces of flat stock where they cross, drilling holes in both. Then you can triangulate for strength and stability, yet adjust it by undoing two bolts, one per side.

If these are tube based monitors, they are heavy.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Not entirely true. ADA guidelines for public display terminals (kiosks) state that a computer display should be tilted back no more than 15 degrees as to aviod ambient glare interfereing with the display.

I love those scientific studies which cost in the six figure area, state the obvious, yet leave leeway for idiots and an escape route for the scientists who cannot understand there is a human trait called COMMON FUCKING SENSE!! . Between 20 and 50 degrees huh. Hahahaha. Thats still 30 freaking degrees which at 39" away amounts to about 9", at ASSUMED desk and eye heights Try sitting on a drafting chair, with a SPECIFIED desk height, and you will discover why this is fucking nonsense. I worked for 10 fucking years in a drafting department with these realitys. EVERYONE is different.
Also, realitys being what they are, the picture suggests that people sit straight up, which is also a crock of shit. I too was a designer, for a Store Fixture manufacturer, with Macys as a main client. We built all their in store computer desks, ADA compliant restroom and point of purchase cashwraps(computer monitors) etc etc. What was descovered, regardless of the ADA requirements, is there was a broad range of eyesight HEIGHTS, and DESK top heights, MONITOR heights, AND work types that didn't accomodate everyone. In fact, these standards based an assumption that everyone is the same damn height(in a wheelchair). Bullshit. My sightview is a whopping 7" difference from that of my wifes when sittting in the same damn chair. If we applied the same line of reasoning to our workstations, ONE of us would have a stiff neck. First off, ADA compliance is for HANDICAPPED, which is a set of guidelines. Pdstl, excuse my little rant here. But PULLLLLLLLLLEEEEEESE spare me. thats why I suggested adjustable, BECAUSE of HEIGHT differences. Not entirely true? BS. At least on the planet I live on
Furthermore, there are other compromises that I personally do for my studio that NO ONE else does, which in effect defies rational design GUIDELINES, simply because THATS WHAT I WANT! For instance, because of the studio room dimensions, it creates nulls that for my height I did NOT want my ears in when sitting at normal desk and sightlevel height. This required sitting in a DRAFTING CHAIR. Hence, for the design of the console I CUSTOM built, in order to not have my feet HANGING from the chair, I built a 4 1/2"h platform for the console legs(hollow cable chases) to die into AND raise the console bridge, which also put MY height in relationship to NULLS, and the requirements for my nearfield speaker center placement on the console bridge into compliance, which also meant that my computer monitors CENTER height was a whopping 53" and my level eyesight is 55" from the floor, which made nonsense of the 15 degree guideline or whatever. Plus, I am a CAD draftsman, and after 10 years of working with counter/desk heights "designed" by the buildings Architect( must have been a fucking moron.) I am happy to use my OWN!! Fuck him. NOW, I do not have a stiff neck at the end of the day. Anyway, to each his own. Just use common sense and trust your own judgement. Oh, and by the way, use grade 8 bolts/nuts and TORQUE em to 50 geeeeeeeeeeesus.
fitZ

 

[knightfly]

Outa sight... :=))

In one setup I used I had the 21" CRT where the BOTTOM of the screen was at eye height (lack of anywhere else to put it); talk about PAIN...

Next setup will be as being discussed here; 3 19" LCD's set as low as they can go and still see them over the mixer, tilted back as far as they can go and still be visible, so that the L-C-R nearfields can shoot over the bridge without ER's ending up at ear level...

Then, two CRT's (video editing suite) placed BETWEEN the 3 front speakers, lined up with front speaker baffles to improve front baffle effects (half-ass soffit attempt) -

Besides, us old farts (batteries or not) get USED to looking at the ground, so no biggie... Steve

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Then, two CRT's (video editing suite) placed BETWEEN the 3 front speakers, lined up with front speaker baffles to improve front baffle effects (half-ass soffit attempt) -

across the console bridge---2 audio monitors 2 video monitors, 2 computer
monitors and I CAN'T lower the video and computer monitors. At least untill I can afford LCD's. I have a special aluminum extrusion at the front edge of the bridge which is acually a lip for monitor brackets to set in. THEN, I can lower them just over the mixer. Alas...all it takes is $$$$$$ As usual.

Besides, us old farts (batteries or not) get USED to looking at the ground, so no biggie... Steve

fitZ

 

[brzilian]

Rick,

Take a freakin' chill-pill or something. I think you're overdoing it on the coffee too...

I never took ADA guidelines literally - only used them as a starting point.

The truth of the matter is you need adjustablility. Rule #1 in design is design for the extremes (5th percentile female and 95th percentile male). My best selling furniture does just that - I gave the user a 7-10" height range for where to place the monitor. Go to your local Office Max and take a look at the Office Revolution desk collection - I designed it.

While working in the kiosk industry, I started incorportating adjustable LCD mounts so the user could do just that. You can see my work next time you walk into a Target store and use one of their newer gift registry kiosks.

 

[frederic]

Besides, us old farts (batteries or not) get USED to looking at the ground, so no biggie... Steve

You can't be that old if you look down, and see the ground rather than your belly

I'm getting there myself. I've almost forgotten what my feet look like.