Opinions needed in building studio.

[xiwiwix]

I need help coming up with a design for my studio. I have my garage which I'm going to close off and it measures 21' x 13', and part of my formula living room which is 10' x 10'. The garage drops 3" so using that as part of the drum room is out of the question. Should I leave it as a rectangle and square? I'm thinking about having hard wood flooring put in the drum room and treating the walls with 703, the same with the control room but with 50% carpet. What other things should I think about?

The Green arrows are pointing to walls are going to be made, and the red-ish arrow is pointing to the wall which is going to be re-made to it will have a window and door to go in to the drum room.

The guys are coming Monday to start building.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

The guys are coming Monday to start building.

They're coming monday, and you are asking about design...TODAY Exactly WHAT are they building? Without a design, what are you going to tell them? Are you..ahem...building TRANSMISSION LOSS assemblies or what? I don't get it.
fitZ

 

[xiwiwix]

Ok, this is what I would prefer! I had given up on non symmetrical rooms because of the 3" drop where the red line is. Purple are going to be the doors, and the blue is the window. What do you think?

 

[Seeker of Rock]

Well, that doesn't look half bad, as a matter of fact it looks nothing bad except it would VERY ideal to have your control room longer, not wider as you have it. You want to maximize the space lengthwise from your monitors back, not vice-versa. You'll have a good mixing environment that way.

If these guys are building "on the fly", which it seems like they would be if they're scheduled Monday, do some homework and make it right if you're dropping that kind of cash. Great job with the angles in the mixing room, just figure out how to do that in a lengthwise orientation and you'll be on your way.

 

[newatthis]

First Off: If your going to seriously build a studio (even just a home or project studio) that will actually work for you, then you better hold off the construction crew for at least a couple weeks and get it figured out the correct way beforehand.

Your second drawing is much better then the first, and you DO want the angled (splayed) walls. Plus in your second drawing, you now show a possible Isolation Room (area) that you can use if need be, which is always nice to have.

Next, dont worry about the OC 703 etc etc all over the place, until after the rooms are built. Get the rooms built, correctly, THEN after its done is when you can, and should work on treating the rooms. Dont just assume that if you throw 703 everywhere, that its going to be a good sounding, or they are sound isolating rooms.

Next question,,,,do you have any neighbors you need to worry about with your sound>??

Next, Whats your budget and what exactly are you trying to accomplish in this Studio when its done?

And finally (and not to send you away from this great site) but also do a search on John Sayers and check out his Studio Building site. Since it seems your in a hurry, maybe you can pick up an already designed Studio off there that will work.

Finally,,,just remember,,,even for a home studio, you want to take the extra steps and make it right. I started my new Studio build back in July 2006 with intentions (same as you,,,rushing it) and having it done by October 2006.

Well here it is Feb 2007 and I have the footers and Foundation done. And now I have to wait till Spring (warmer weather) to finish it.

Was the wait and all the research worth it??? YOU BET !!

Slow down,,,, and do it right so you have something to be proud of in the end. And in the meantime, you can and will get good advice and alot of help for free on these sites from others who have been there, done that,,,,the right way!!

Peace
AJ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Your second drawing is much better then the first, and you DO want the angled (splayed) walls.

From my understanding, modal response is NOT improved by splaying walls. Yes, you can say that it will impede the forming of standing waves, but in such small rooms, this is easily acomplished with absorption as well. But here is the main thing I would be concerned with. And that is CODES. If the red line represents the boundary between the house and the garage, and this is a wall that is being opened up, I think the Building Inspection department and your insurance company would like to know In some juristictions, rezoning your space is TOTALLY under the authority of the BID. So is building new walls/doors/windows. You say the construction crew is coming Monday. Do you/they have a building PERMIT? If not, you are setting yourself up for a serious insurance void should anything happen, or if you get caught, fees and fines are nothing to scoff at. I know from experience.

 

[newatthis]

And I would assume especially if your codes requires Fire Rated Drywall between the garage and house, and your possibly now opening that up>?>? For sure a codes issue.

As far as splaying walls, My 2 rooms will be:

Room One (Tracking (Live) Room); 18ft X 21ft
Room Two (Control Room) 13ft X 21ft

And I was told many times by many engineers (especially on Sayers site) that I do NOT want parallel walls, even with rooms that size. Thats why I am preaching splaying the walls. And even smaller rooms you would still have, or could create standing of self cancelling waves,,,,couldnt you??

Again, I 110% agree with Rick that you MUST get your codes department involved so you dont get blasted later.

Peace
AJ

 

[xiwiwix]

Thanks for the GREAT replies guys!!!! Awesome! I live out in the country. Codes my nuts!

Well, lo and be-hold, the idea I had was to have the room to the right the drum room, the smallest room and iso room, and the room to the north the controll room. The reason behind that was because of the neighbors.

The green boarder is the area I have to work with, the black lines are the walls that are up now and can not be moved. I have neighbors that live about 15' to 20' to the left of the pillars. The black squares are brick pillars that I'm having removed, unless it's best to keep them there. I need to make sure that no sound reach them my neighbors.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I have neighbors that live about 15' to 20' to the left of the pillars. The black squares are brick pillars that I'm having removed, unless it's best to keep them there. I need to make sure that no sound reach them my neighbors.

Hello xiwiwix. Well, if TOTAL soundproof is your goal, I suggest you hold on to your hat. You are in for a real REALITY CHECK.

xiwiwix, "soundproof" construction is a lesson in unforgiveness. What you are dealing with here is PHYSICS. If you have money to waste, go ahead and jump right in and start building. I don't know who has advised you or what they have told you about "soundproofing" construction, but MOST contractors don't have a FUCKING CLUE to the real deal.

The BEST advice I can offer you at this point is to READ THIS THREAD FULLY. And yes it is a garage. But for REAL WORLD solution to the same goal as you, I suggest you get familiar with the problems and solutions.
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2921&sid=a34afb4025b614688d1ce9a99a658928

And then come back. Oh, one other thing. Cancel your building session, and get prepared for some headscratching, learning, redesigning, and checking with BID. This subject is NOT typical construction nor is it typical CODE compliance. Here is why.
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4442&sid=a34afb4025b614688d1ce9a99a658928
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

And I was told many times by many engineers (especially on Sayers site) that I do NOT want parallel walls, even with rooms that size.

I think it depends if you can loose the floor space vs. your budget/acoustical goals. Yea, it is the frosting on the cake, but if you don't have the budget or space...forget it. Modal response in rectangle rooms can be calculated for an idea of what you are up against, and NON rectangle rooms are IMPOSSIBLE to calculate the modal problems. Although, EVERY room should be measured with ETF or such to actually see the given rooms response...BEFORE and AFTER. Thats the ONLY way to really tell if your treatment and or room design is working(flattest room response possible)
fitZ

 

[xiwiwix]

Well, I'm going to have to look into the building codes Monday, but I don't think any will apply because where I live.

Do any of you guys know what Dry Ice is? Is it good for what I want?

I think this design will help a lot. The drum room is far away from the neighbors house and I think that what's being planned for the control room walls will have enough isolation for my monitors. Does anyone thing this is false?

This is what I was told, T-11, 1" wood (wood used for roof's), 4x2 stud filled with insulation, 2" of Dry Ice, two 0.5" dry wall sheets. 8" thick wall.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I'm telling you again. You are in DENIAL Either face the music or throw your money down the sewer, NO, it will not DO THE JOB...I guarantee it.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

2" of Dry Ice,

Dry Ice???? You really are delusional.

 

[xiwiwix]

Dry Ice???? You really are delusional.

What do you mean? I don't even know what that is. What is it? I've asked once in this thread...I think I have. No, not the stuff you use for fog machines.

 

[pandamonk]

Well, I'm going to have to look into the building codes Monday, but I don't think any will apply because where I live.

Do any of you guys know what Dry Ice is? Is it good for what I want?

I think this design will help a lot. The drum room is far away from the neighbors house and I think that what's being planned for the control room walls will have enough isolation for my monitors. Does anyone thing this is false?

This is what I was told, T-11, 1" wood (wood used for roof's), 4x2 stud filled with insulation, 2" of Dry Ice, two 0.5" dry wall sheets. 8" thick wall.

Right, slow down. Cancel the builders, this design is not very good from an acoustical perspective, never mind all the other stuff rick is talking about.

Right for isolation you need a mass-air(cushion)-mass structure. Any more and you will reduce the effectiveness. This needs to be done all round including floor, ceiling, doors and windows. They also should be decoupled, meaning that there should be no joins between the inner and outer masses. The requires a floating floor. Now everything must be well sealed, 'cause where air can go, so can sound. And like everything else, it is only as good as its weakest link. So it's no good building really thick, massive walls, if you're just gonna have a thin roof, or you're gonna put a window in.

Now, like i said, everything needs to be sealed so no air can get in our out. This creates a big problem, 'cause people need to breathe, so you need a way of bringing in fresh air, and expelling the used air, without allowing sound to be transmitted in the process.

This all requires a huge amount of detailed planning and design, and then very good building.

You then gotta think about the acoustics of the place, 'cause you don't wanna throw all you're money at making sure you don't annoy the neighbours, only to find out that the rooms sound shit, and are impossible to mix in.

Now acoustics take a lot of careful planning and design also, things need to be just right, or you could make it even worse than it would be without.

And finally, this might all go totally against your areas regulations, and maybe even your safety.

You really need a lot more time to think about it man. Take our advice, and we will help.

Pandam.

 

[xiwiwix]

Ok, thanks guys. I'm going to hold off, no building this week.

 

[xiwiwix]

I have been given the option of adding a 15' x 15' room in front of of the iso room in the picture, but I will have to pour concrete and add to the roof to do this. I really have a lot to think about.

 

[pandamonk]

I have been given the option of adding a 15' x 15' room in front of of the iso room in the picture, but I will have to pour concrete and add to the roof to do this. I really have a lot to think about.

Also, you don't want a square room. Terrible acoustics