On the beat... singing

[raven46]

I was talking to a friend last night that has heard a few of the songs I've recorded and he was telling me that I should hold off for a slight fraction of a second when coming in on the beat or start of a sequence\progression, i.e. start of a verse\chorus.

I can't say I've ever noticed other singers do it but he assured me that many do.

Is it a common technique?

 

[gecko zzed]

I was talking to a friend last night that has heard a few of the songs I've recorded and he was telling me that I should hold off for a slight fraction of a second when coming in on the beat or start of a sequence\progression, i.e. start of a verse\chorus.

I can't say I've ever noticed other singers do it but he assured me that many do.

Is it a common technique?

He's probably trying to get you to sing more flowingly. If you are always hitting the beat dead one, you can get (though not always) a fairly mechanical sound. If you allow your syllables to drift around the beat (sometimes ahead, sometimes behind), you can inject considerable life into a performance.

Billie Holiday had a habit of singing quite a bit behind the beat . . . it did her no harm!

 

[miroslav]

Try to sing more like you talk.

IOW...if you talked "on the beat"...it would sound very robotic, and no one really does that anyway.
Everyone has a certain way that they phrase and accent their speech, some of it subconscious some of it intentional.

So when you sing...you should try and personalize your singing in the same way.
If you just hit everything on the beat, it will be robotic after awhile.

Just like gecko zzed mentions Billie Holiday…another famous singer who was a master at vocal phrasing/timming…was Frank Sinatra.

 

[ecktronic]

I was talking to a friend last night that has heard a few of the songs I've recorded and he was telling me that I should hold off for a slight fraction of a second when coming in on the beat or start of a sequence\progression, i.e. start of a verse\chorus.

I can't say I've ever noticed other singers do it but he assured me that many do.

Is it a common technique?

Can work well, depends on the song and singing obviously.
Just do what sounds best to you, try out different recordings of the singing and compare to see what you prefer.

Eck (G)

 

[glynb]

probably about the vocal 'phrasing'. developing your own style. great singers do this.

This guy states it nicely:
"A tricky way to sing. Rather than strictly follow the time, you sing in a more conversational manner, taking the beat as a suggestion rather than a rule.
If you can do this well, then you will sound very natural and intimate. If you do this poorly, it will sound like you have no idea how to sing.

Karen Carpenter and Frank Sinatra are generally acknowledged as being masters of vocal phrasing. The best way to see this is try try and sing along with them, and you'll see that even though they sound natural, they don't really follow the beat at all. "

http://everything2.com/?node_id=611852

 

[raven46]

Thanks for the replys.
Most of the music I've been listening to lately has been instrumental stuff like Ten East and Paco De lucia. I've heard of Billie Holiday and know lots of her songs but never listened intently. I went onto youtube and studied her songs, she has amazing technique. Now that its brought to my attention its easy to spot and as ye said it really makes the vocal flow more freely. Its like one of those revelation when you know finally learn the fretboard. Another I noticed doing it well was Tom Waits.
Putting it into pratice is going to take alot of well... pratice, ye guys are so right last night I spent some time trying not to be on the beat. I found it very tricky, I really felt like a robot after years of being a slave to the beat.

 

[hardwire666]

I think coming up with a vocal melody, and meter can be one of the most difficult things. It just takes time. Like I told a friend once. "Just sing, don't TRY to sing, or it will sound forced, and not natural." Some things just seem to work out best the LESS you think about them.

 

[raven46]

I think coming up with a vocal melody, and meter can be one of the most difficult things. It just takes time. Like I told a friend once. "Just sing, don't TRY to sing, or it will sound forced, and not natural." Some things just seem to work out best the LESS you think about them.

Thanks man, thats a good tip. Let the subconscience take over

 

[dintymoore]

I think coming up with a vocal melody, and meter can be one of the most difficult things. It just takes time. Like I told a friend once. "Just sing, don't TRY to sing, or it will sound forced, and not natural." Some things just seem to work out best the LESS you think about them.

Good advice.

If you start thinking "am I behind the beat... I should wait a moment before I come in..." all that stuff is not where it's at. You shouldn't really be thinking but more feeling and doing, so I'd avoid thinking like that.

Just get into the song, feel the words and the melody, and copy people you like.

Paul Rogers sure has great phrasing, and John Lennon... whoever you like.

Also, people will tell you all kinds of stuff, and you really have to decide what to ignore and what to make your own.

 

[gecko zzed]

Thanks for the replys.
Most of the music I've been listening to lately has been instrumental stuff like Ten East and Paco De lucia. I've heard of Billie Holiday and know lots of her songs but never listened intently. I went onto youtube and studied her songs, she has amazing technique. Now that its brought to my attention its easy to spot and as ye said it really makes the vocal flow more freely. Its like one of those revelation when you know finally learn the fretboard. Another I noticed doing it well was Tom Waits.
Putting it into pratice is going to take alot of well... pratice, ye guys are so right last night I spent some time trying not to be on the beat. I found it very tricky, I really felt like a robot after years of being a slave to the beat.

A useful technique to try is to grab your lyrics, wander off into the garden somewhere, and read them aloud to an imaginery person in such a way that you would convince that listener of your sincerity. It helps in developing phrasing and emphasis. It also reveals the words and phrases that are weak, sound unnatural or are otherwise unconvincing.

 

[ez_willis]

I was talking to a friend last night that has heard a few of the songs I've recorded and he was telling me that I should hold off for a slight fraction of a second when coming in on the beat or start of a sequence\progression, i.e. start of a verse\chorus.

I can't say I've ever noticed other singers do it but he assured me that many do.

Is it a common technique?

yes. it's called "groove".

 

[hardwire666]

yes. it's called "groove".

I will agree to that as well. Finding the proper rhythm for lyrics, or any instrument in a song really is all about groove. Personally I go by the "More is better" train of thought. I like to over complicate my project, and then start pulling things away as I move forward. Much like a sculptor with a mound of clay, or a director trimming fat from a movie. As I start simplifying my project by removing parts, simplifying melodies, counter melodies, and beats the place for my vocal track starts to become more apparent. I only bring this up because sometimes you just might have to re-think what the other instruments are doing in that part of the song. Then allowing room for vocals to fit, and "Groove", or meld with the rest of the song. Like I said "sometimes", it's going to be different for everyone, and every song.