Omnis??

[jgourd]

I am going to try some experimental 5 channel recording. I'll use cardiods for the front 3 channels and I thought I would try 2 omnis for the rears.

Can someone throw out some model numbers of fair to decent omnis in the $300-$500 a pair range so I can check them out?

Thanks ever so much!

 

[xtremedb]

There are no fair to decent omnis in that price range. The only ones you'd find at all would be mics like the EV RE50 and 635A. These mics are designed for news and interviews, etc.

I suggest that you would be much better off in your attempt using directional mics... especially if you are on a budget. You might want to try a stereo mic or even a pzm. The problem is you will probably have to do lots of experimenting to find something that works.

If you want to use the mics solely for this purpose, you may want to consider a modular mic, such as the AKG Blue Line. That way, you could order a number of different capsules, experiment to find a combination that works and then send the rest back. That way you would only end up "paying" for the polar patterns you use.

I don't claim to have any experience in this particular area, but I can tell you that you are going to have to do lots of experimentation with different positions and different mics. Remember that even if someone else posts a suggestion here, it will be from their experience in another acoustic space, which changes all the rules. Hope that sheds some light.

Good luck,

Brad Gallagher
http://www.just-for-musicians.com/

 

[jgourd]

I have a pair of PZMs which I was considering using. Thanks for the info, I'll look into the mics you mentioned.

 

[The Axis]

Earthworks SRO. Only $268 from www.digitalproaudio.com

 

[electricbeats]

SRO

Thanks, Axis !

Thaught I was the only one who posts about the EW mics. Since almost 4 Years I carry some of mine with me wherever I go, they produce an amazingly accurate image, are quiet and reliable, I've also had them on various shows on the road with me ( I have 12 different types from the QTC to SR69 - enough to mic an orchestra or a jazz band ) and the only tricky point is that they are quite sensitive to phantom power regarding stability. This results in the necessity to connect them with proper cabling to your mixer, which is no problem at a studio but can be an issue in live recording applications.

Apart from the fact that its fascinating to be able to take one of your room omnis and closemic a bassdrum if necessary ( they are nearly flat down to 7 (!!!) Hz )

KG

 

[The Axis]

electricbeats: Yeah, I have become an Earthworks moonie. I have a pair of QTC1s and a pair if SR71s.
"Once you've gone FLAT, you never go back. "
Some things really are worth the slight extra cost.

Peace,
Rick

 

[electricbeats]

how are your experiences in console gain headroom when closemiking with them ?

( I know this being slightly of topic )

 

[The Axis]

Earthworks Headroom

I never have any trouble, but my experience is actually very narrow. I mostly record acoustic fingerstyle guitar, which is very soft. I keep the mikes about 2 feet out, just to let the sound come together a bit more naturally. At that distance, and on a soft source, they still don't require much gain to be able to hit +20dBu on the A/D converters at the loudest parts. I have tried the "extreme close miking" techniques (3-6 inches), and it sounded good, but not quite as natural, and it bothered me psychologically to have the mikes that close while playing !!

I have also used the SR71 to mike my electric guitar cab, but also only at soft volumes. The SR71 sounded great shoved right against the grillcloth, and position and angle didn't seem to make a big difference, although there was a subtle change. Basically it sounds like what you hear. I use a Carvin X-100, which has a very good tube-tone and distortion. The miked sound is a lot better than any of the direct-simulators I have tried.

Probably doesn't really answer your question. Sorry !
I usually recommend the E-Wks to those who express a desire for natural, accurate sound on acoustic instruments. I know they are applicable to other things, but I don't have the experience to comment.

Rick

 

[electricbeats]

earthworks headroom / still Omnis??

I was asking because I happened to have problems with it.

I use my EW omnis for entire drum/percussion kits (apart from overheads - the SR71 do that ) . The SRO is technically identical to the TC30K, same capsule, same pre, but do not come with frequency chart and you can't get them in matched pairs. But the main thing is that the SROs can handle the same max SPL like the TC30K: 151db
So imagine this mic at the bottom end of a big djambe and feel the bass down to 7Hz (!).

And imagine the peak level the mics spit out when set up 3 inches away from a bassdrum or timbales ...


One other thing is that in these years 'before Earthworks' I mainly used a cardioid as my 'default' pattern whereas in the last 2 years I find myself mainly using my omnis, if in recording or even live...

Starting to work with omis changed my idea of sound and how to achieve it. I find myself listening to the room as long asto the actual source, I get better results due to less eqing and since you hear phasing effects more on omnis than on cardioids I pay more attention to position it correctly after I figured out WHERE in the actual room I record.

So folks, GET OMNIS if you consider buying a new mic...

 

[The Axis]

I was asking because I happened to have problems with it.

Are you saying that you are overloading the INPUT of the preamp ? Otherwise just turn it down. (too simple, you must mean the input). But most decent preamps will withstand +20 dBu or more these days. So I am still wondering.

I actually record with both the omni pair and the cardiod pair simultaneously, then select the best sound afterward. The Omnis do sound more natural, but also pick up ambient noise, which sometimes include wind, rain, plumbing, drivebys...The cardioids have better rejection and "focus" on the guitar. They both sound more like each other than any other mike brand I tried, though, so I assume Earthworks uses very similar technology in all their models.

On the preamp problem: I am probably going to buy a LAB102, even though I really don't have a "problem". Maybe that would help yours. I again assume that Ewks preamps can withstand the max rated output of EWks mikes, but it might be worth a call to Ewks. Eric Blackmer himself has picked up the phone when I called and talked to me abouut my applications !

Peace,
Rick

 

[electricbeats]

peak level

Ok, Rick, heres the background:

Tho I record a lot I make a living doing live sound. On tours in europe, mainly jazz, world music and music industry related corporate shows, CD releases etc...
I know Eric since 3 years now and I give him feedback, send him photos and suggestions about his mics, one year ago I got one of the SROs prototypes and took it on shows with me, now it rests retired on my desktop in its tacky light brown colour ...

But theres 2 things that I often reported:
(with setup and mixer type, and details)

Earthworks mics want to be connected with proper cabling, it used to be worse than now, a year ago they did a redesign of the mics output stage and achieved a major approvement. ( I still have most mics with the old board tho - the sound is the same )
On some live stages they just did not work, distorted or just misbehaved (cracks etc...)

On some consoles that have sensitive mic input stages a loud bassdrum signal over the range from 7Hz to 7kHz brings the stage into clipping even tho the full level is not reached. The most interesting experience I had was with a YAMAHA PM4000 that just could not take what came down the multicore... usually you have the -30db pad in when you do rock shows ona PM4 so there was nothing to pad there anymore

I noticed it also on the old soundcraft consoles, in the venue up to the vienna I series there was a time a few years ago they had what they called a 'dynamic gain stage' without a pad. I could not use the mics on any of my drum sets.

So getting a decent pre is not just an improvement in sound but also gives you the ability to record any source up to 150db...

And that's why I got myself an earthworks 1024 - I'm on small budget now but it's sitting in a 2U softrack above an eventide eclipse, it goes as hand luggage on the plane, the mics in the back It's with me on every show I do and whenever I have time I A/B it to people that are interested in it, I'm not employed by EW in any way and except for the prototype and one SR69 I payed for every single peace - why I'm so enthusiastic about the gear is
1st because its good
2nd because of the great support even from the owner Mr Blackmer Senior himself - Eric is his son

If possible try to meet him at a trade show and he'll give you a free speech introduction into microphone technique and acoustics you won't forget...

being way off topic now I'll shut up ;-)

best

klaus

 

[The Axis]

OK, Klaus,
I can see that doing live shows with different mixers and pres may create more of a challenge than my simple, sheltered setup.

Softrack with a little extra storage sounds like a great idea.

Good luck.
Rick

 

[Wil Davis]

I have a matched pair of TC30Ks, but from your post, I thought you were only interested in $500 or less.

- Wil

 

[xtremedb]

Hey guys...

You're not alone! I don't own any Earthworks stuff, but I definitely remember the first time I encountered it! I was laying down an acoustic track with a pair of QTC-1's. I couldn't figure out what the loud thumping noise was in the cans... Then I realized it was me rubbing my toes together!!!

Man! Talk about every little detail.

Brad Gallagher
http://www.just-for-musicians.com/

 

[Tonewoods]

There are no fair to decent omnis in that price range. The only ones you'd find at all would be mics like the EV RE50 and 635A. These mics are designed for news and interviews, etc.

The EV 635A, RE50, and RE55 are heads above "fair to decent", IMHO...Every mic locker should have a couple of each, especially at the prices they go for, even on ebay. I picked up a couple 635a's (on ebay no less) for 40 bucks for the pair. They are very useful for amp cabs, and even drum overheads...

The RE55 is an interesting beast, and is useful for all kinds of things, including kick drum and certain guitars. For you Djangophiles, try an RE55 on a Macaferri for that mid-rangey honk. It's also really interesting on Dobro and AC30 cabs--anything that you want to really accentuate the mids on...

My fav omni though is an Altec coke bottle...they rule on just about anything...