Okay, So, If I Tried AGAIN...?

[stevieb]

Some basic questions:

Well, I didn't get to record my group's outdoor concert (see this thread: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=265437&highlight=stevieb) but I did get to do a test run right before. The rig was:

Tascam DP-01
Behringer Euromixer UBB1002
Audix f15 condensers, up high in an X-Y pattern- closest to a matched pair I have access to.
Audix f10 mic, in front of one of the monitor speakers- to pick up lower frequencies, etc., as the F15's proved to record only highs in an earlier test.
Audix F12, in front of the bass amp speaker.

All the mics were run thru the mixer, which provided phantom power, and then to the two tracks the Dp_01 can record to at once. Results were decent, but as I could not listen to it, balance was not the best.

This was inside. Next time, if it's gonna be inside, too, should I use my AT 4033 and 4047, instead of the F15's? Would the F10 and F12 still help?

Also, I am going to be hosting songwriter sessions in my living room soon. It's got a cathedrial ceiling, so I am hoping it will be a good room. Hardwood floors, too, btw. Thinking of setting up the same basic setup, hitting record and letting it go thru the session. What do you think?

A bandmate also has a DP-01FX- if we both recorded the same stuff, to our respective machines, is there computer software that will allow us to mix the 4 tracks to two? I am thinking having his with the two condensers (his has on-board phantom power) and mine with the two dyanamics.

I have several Presonis tube pre amps- should they be part of the signal path?

Thanks for humoring some very basic questions. Still learning...

Oh, I also have a Digi-001, would using that be better? I am thinking I might use the insert-plugged-half-in trick to make my little board behave a bit like a recording board.

 

[stevieb]

Sixty two views and not one reply? Did I piss someone off, here?

 

[mixsit]

Nah no worries there.

 

[Daisy]

My answer to each one of your questions:

Why don't you try it and see what happens?

 

[stevieb]

My answer to each one of your questions:

Why don't you try it and see what happens?

You the resident smart-ass here, Daisy?

I'm all for trying stuff, but a bit hard when you are talking getting 10 folks together. Can't really try more than one or two mics any particular session, and then controlling for variables gets pretty difficult.

Just hoping someone here has tried some of this, and can steer me in a good direction.

 

[leddy]

With only two tracks available, any mixing on the fly will be a major crap shoot. Good results will be shear luck.

I would just use a stereo pair and spend some time looking for the right spot to place them. Great recordings can be made this way. I'd lean towards near-coincident like ORTF rather than XY. I find the image on XY narrow too for my taste (take that with a grain of salt - XY may be better depending on where you put them).

Now, if you can get a recorder that will do four tracks you could take a stereo pair, maybe a mono feed from the board and have an extra track for whatever else.

 

[Daisy]

You the resident smart-ass here, Daisy?

Yes, I am.



But seriously, and from experience, my very best teacher has been experimentation along with a healthy dose of trial and error.

Right now, you're very limited, and we've established this. You can only do 2 simultaeous inputs. So you either need to up your track count, or go with what you got. Some of your ideas / work-arounds of using multiple systems sound interesting. So try them! I think it'll be a major pain in the ass for you, but eventually you'll get a new system with more inputs, or just learn how to make due with two. And that's what it's all about!

You've got some different mic'ing options. So try them out. Try the Audix in XY from above. Try the Audio Technicas from out front. Then try them all together. Listen back and see which combination you like. I think you'll find all of this to be a whole lot of fun if you let it.

I remember a much earlier time when I was recording a band at a party just after the college days; I had 4 tracks going to a porta-studio, two more going to a stereo VCR, and two more going to my two sounblaster inputs in the computer DOWNSTAIRS via a 100-foot RCA cable. In the end, I got it all together. It sounded fine .... I'd NEVER do it again, but I would never take back the experience! Just making due with what you got. That's the very essense of being a home rec'er.

 

[stevieb]

What's ORTF?

 

[isfahani]

Man...

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS250&=&q=ORTF&btnG=Google+Search

I used to record live shows in the 90's with a cheap cassette recorder deck, it was a bit different than the average expensive deck in that you could plug in a 1/4 in the front, but it would still accept a line input from the other channel instead of cutting it off due to plugging in at the front.

So, two track: Mono board send on one side + battery op condenser at either the front of the stage, an omni dead center but point the mic towards the ceiling at nipple to nose height, whichever is possible, OR a cardioid at the mixing position in the audience, pointed at the stage. Then, mix down to taste & compress a little. I used to put them at 5 mins to 12am and 5 mins after... pseudo stereo.

Simple, simplistic, good coverage, no problems.

 

[sweetnubs]

listing a bunch of gear and shit

doesn't mean anything. You have to know how to use it. Pleasant day moron.

 

[Randy Yell]

Wow Sweet, your answer was very enlightning. You are indeed an asset to the board. Nice of you to be so helpful. May your karma return to you tenfold.

If I were recording live with only two tracks I would only use two mikes in an x/y formation. Take some time with mic placement though, move around the room and listen and find the sweet spot where everything sounds balanced and set up your mics there.

 

[mixsit]

doesn't mean anything. You have to know how to use it. Pleasant day moron.

Who? What was the point of that? The OP was asking how to use it.

 

[isfahani]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Griefing

 

[stevieb]

Hey, folks, thanks for coming to my defense, but I just found Sweet's comment mildy humorous. Probably not in the way he might have liked, but mildy humorous all the same. No need to censure him on my account.

Still wondering what ORTF is...

 

[leddy]

Still wondering what ORTF is...

Your question was answered earlier through a very challenging, time-consuming google search...

Man...

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS250&=&q=ORTF&btnG=Google+Search

I highly recommend that anyone interested in recording REALLY take some time learning about capturing a good stereo image. Understand the differences between coincident, near-coincident and spaced. Know the pros and cons of each, etc. It helps making mixing decisions, understanding phase, etc.
Buy microphones with the different patterns you need to do different methods.

(Rant warning):

I could never figure out how folks think they can artificially build a stereo event through multiple, panned mono sources without understanding what makes a good stereo recording in the first place.

(Rant over).

 

[stevieb]

I missed the link about ORTF. Thanks for posting it, isfahani, and thanks for bringing it to my attention, leddy. Just printed out the parper "The srerophonic zoom," by Michael Williams, to read and study.

thanks for the edumacation!

 

[leddy]

I missed the link about ORTF. Thanks for posting it, isfahani, and thanks for bringing it to my attention, leddy. Just printed out the parper "The srerophonic zoom," by Michael Williams, to read and study.

thanks for the edumacation!

That's heavier reading than necessary at the moment. Check out something like this:
http://homerecording.about.com/od/microphones101/ss/stereo_mics.htm

With a pair of cardiods, at least play around with the angle of the mics, and the differences between XY and ORTF.

 

[stevieb]

Again, thanks for the CONSTRUCTIVE comments. Not gonna say anymore about the un-constructive ones...


During the rehersal session I was able to record, while I had the Audix F-15's in XY, I also had the F10 and F12 right at the speakers. The F-15's were way back, about 30 feet from the dais, and they picked up LOTS of room abiance, and LITTLE bass (there was a time when the F10 and 12's channels were turned all the way down.)

We are rehersing again Thursday- actually, just playing, as we have no performance coming up to reherse for- so it will be much more low-key, and I am not setting up any PA- I guess I could run something like a mic or two to the church's stereo, which has pretty good speakers in the corners of the dais, but I don't see any reason to. I will bring the mics up much closer to the dais- say, about 10 feet? but I wonder if I will get much more bass from what are essentially high-freq. mics.

So, what's a good thing to try?

Maybe run a pair of F-10's on the same high stand as the F-15's, thru the little board, with one F-10 and one F-15 recorded left, the other right? Or the F-10's low?

A single F-10 or the F-12, low and center, with a mono signal to both L and R recording channels (in addition to the F-15's up high and XY)?

Use my AT 4033 and 4047 instead of the F-15's?

Or ditch the condensers all together and go with dynamics in XY, about 10 feed back, and high (or low?)

And if they are all good ideas to try, which one should I try first? Second? Etc?

Actually, I am eagar to try ALL those settings out, and maybe more. But some guidance as to what is more likely to work would be appreciated. Thanks, again.