What is causing Zoom F8 glitches? (Resolved)

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pasternak

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Update: The cards both failed the third full length test after passing the first two. So I am pretty certain the cards are the problem. Must be an intermittent issue. I’d delete this query if I didn’t think doing so might wreak havoc with the order of things here.
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Hi- First post here. I’m a musician, not a recording engineer. Please bear with me while grope for the words to describe my issue.

I’m using the F8 & FRC8 to record jazz quartet rehearsals (piano/ guitar /bass/ drums). Using all 8 tracks (condenser mics), two SanDisk 80mbs 64 SDXC.

Something is corrupting 3 or 4 of every dozen polywaves produced each session. All 8 tracks are skipping at once periodically (Imagine bumping the arm of a turntable so that the needle jumps ahead a few grooves on a vinyl record. This is what it sounds like). The skips occur when I sample a polywave with QuickTime. And the skips occur in the same spots after I open the polywaves in Logic Pro X. It follows, I am fairly certain the F8 and not the old MacBook Pro I’m mixing on is the source of the problem.

Both SD cards passed the long test on the f8. But I still feel the card is the culprit. But thought I’d ask for help here before I buy new cards. Does anyone recognize this issue and know how to fix it? Can any one recommend a current available 64gb card that works well with the f8? Thanks for reading this enormous query!
 
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I wonder what the write speed is needed for the F8 with all 8 tracks being written. What bit depth/sample rate are you recording?

It looks like the way to go is the new UHS class 3 is supposed to write up to 30Mb/s, which is triple what is spec'd for Class10 cards. Unfortunately, most SD card manufacturers don't specify write speed, just read.
 
I too suspect the cards - I wonder if the interleaved multi format (the polywaves) also is causing some kind of buffer bottleneck. Is it essential to use them for this project, or would 8 mono files be acceptable? These might get to the cards more resiliently? I tend to use 32Gb class 10 sandisk SD cards for HD video, and all these are fine for audio - although I don;t have the same audio recorder you have.
 
TalismanRich said:
Just as a reference, I was reading up on this here: https://chasingheartbeats.com/memory-cards/uhs-1-vs-class-10/

Also, looking at the compatible cards for the F8, it was interesting that only a couple of Sandisk cards were listed. The good ones seemed to be from Lexar, Transcend and Kingston. I've always had good luck with Sandisk cards for both my video camera and my R24. Transcend cards were good too.
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The (link) clinic on memory cards is terrific. I really don’t know a thing about them. So most appreciated. Thank you, Talisman.
 
rob aylestone said:
I too suspect the cards - I wonder if the interleaved multi format (the polywaves) also is causing some kind of buffer bottleneck. Is it essential to use them for this project, or would 8 mono files be acceptable? These might get to the cards more resiliently? I tend to use 32Gb class 10 sandisk SD cards for HD video, and all these are fine for audio - although I don;t have the same audio recorder you have.
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I’ll try the mono file approach if new cards don’t do the trick. This is the sort of suggestion for troubleshooting I was hoping to get. Thank you, Rob.
 
TalismanRich said:
I wonder what the write speed is needed for the F8 with all 8 tracks being written. What bit depth/sample rate are you recording?

It looks like the way to go is the new UHS class 3 is supposed to write up to 30Mb/s, which is triple what is spec'd for Class10 cards. Unfortunately, most SD card manufacturers don't specify write speed, just read.
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48/24 - I’m going to take your advice and give UHS class 3 a shot. Thanks for the helpful suggestions.
 
TalismanRich said:
Here is the 2021 list of cards for the F8n. It looks like the UHS class cards are good to use. There are U3 cards from Sandisk, Kingston and Transcend specified at compatible.


Like Rob, I wonder if using Polyphonic file encoding is more intensive than using mono tracks.
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Ah, you found a 2021 list of compatible cards. 2017 was all I managed to dig up for some mysterious and embarrassing reason. Maybe the search term ‘f8n’ generates different results than ‘f8’ (I own the latter). I just bought a couple of SanDisk U3s via Amzn. I expect I am well on the road to recovery.
 
Came here in search of similar issue with Zoom H6. Also not a recording engineer - I'm a classical pianist and I often work with young string players to prepare pre-screen audition videos+recordings for concerto competitions and the like. Families rely on me to deal with the recording side in addition to the musical side of things.

Literally this weekend I was recording a concerto movement with a violinist. And near the end of the recording, the H6 skipped all six tracks (piano L/R violin L/R, X/Y room centre) for a second or two. Never had this happen before. Recording in 24 bits, 44.1 kHz sampling, WAV format. On the camera side, there was reasonable audio, so we ended up pivoting to that for the final. But it's disappointing to say the least. If this were a higher-stakes audition recording, it would have been devastating.

Just here to add another data point on a different - but similar device. My gut feeling that I had come to before seeing this post is that it was the SD card. I ran a quick test on the card - it passed - but who knows what the actual write speed is. Seriously considering a move to recording to laptop instead. But possibly a switch to faster card would be an alternative. The card I was using is a Sony U3 SDXC that is reported to write to 94 MB/s - but who knows what the actual write speed is? It's not on the list - but no Sony card is.

In any case, the SD compatibility chart was helpful. Here's a similar chart for the H6 (Nov 2021) that the link led me to: https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/H6_compatible_cards_en2.pdf
 
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Ojisan Seiucui said:
Came here in search of similar issue with Zoom H6. Also not a recording engineer - I'm a classical pianist and I often work with young string players to prepare pre-screen audition videos+recordings for concerto competitions and the like. Families rely on me to deal with the recording side in addition to the musical side of things.

Literally this weekend I was recording a concerto movement with a violinist. And near the end of the recording, the H6 skipped all six tracks (piano L/R violin L/R, X/Y room centre) for a second or two. Never had this happen before. Recording in 24 bits, 44.1 kHz sampling. On the camera side, there was reasonable audio, so we ended up pivoting to that for the final. But it's disappointing to say the least. If this were a higher-stakes audition recording, it would have been devastating.

Just here to add another data point on a different - but similar device. My gut feeling that I had come to before seeing this post is that it was the SD card. I ran a quick test on the card - it passed - but who knows what the actual write speed is. Seriously considering a move to recording to laptop instead. But possibly a switch to faster card would be an alternative. The card I was using is a Sony U3 SDXC that is reported to write to 94 MB/s - but who knows what the actual write speed is? It's not on the list - but no Sony card is.

In any case, the SD compatibility chart was helpful. Here's a similar chart for the H6 (Nov 2021) that the link led me to: https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/H6_compatible_cards_en2.pdf
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Thank you for the list. I bought two cards yesterday:

“SanDisk 64GB Extreme SDXC UHS-I Card - C10, U3, V30, 4K UHD, SD Card - SDSDXV6-064G-GNCIN” ​

They arrive tomorrow (Tuesday). I’ll test them and post the results for anyone who may be interested.

Based on your message to me, Ojison, I thought I should mention there are both, a short and a long, card test feature on the Zoom f8. My current incompatible or defective cards both test ‘good’ via short test. However, both cards fail multiple long (1hr 20min) tests. It follows, I don’t know if the long test is available on yours H6, if it is then I highly recommend long testing a new card before starting a ‘high stake’ recording. Two 64gb cards means 2-1/2 hours of essential testing. Lesson learned.

Tuesday Update: Both SanDisk 64gb Extreme cards passed the long test. We plan to record on the new cards Thursday. Expecting glitch-free recordings. I’ll post the results here Friday.
 
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They arrive tomorrow (Tuesday). I’ll test them and post the results for anyone who may be interested.
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I would certainly appreciate a report on that.

I thought I should mention there are both, a short and a long, card test feature on the Zoom f8.
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Yes, the H6 also has a long test feature, too. But the estimated time was reported to be a little over 7 hours(!) so I was waiting to have it run overnight.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread here - but I thought I'd add another data point to your experience.
 
That's interesting to hear this happening. I have used my R24 to record 8 tracks at some live events over the years. With a 16GB card, I was able to record 6 hours straight at 16/44.1. It surprised me the first time I set it up. When I went back to chop out the various songs, everything was perfect.
 
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