okay, ive finished mixing but im a little stuck?

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jamtheguitarman

jamtheguitarman

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ive finished all my mixing and traking today but i am a little stuck. at various points during the song, the master output peaks occasionally, i cant hear any clipping but the meter still goes into the red momenterally. i am trying to get rid of this as i assume its bad news, is it problem?
i tried sticking a limiter on it but that did some wierd stuff, it just kept making this sound like it was pulling all the tracks in and out, if you get what i mean.(sorry, very badly explained.) how should i get rid of these peaks?
turning the master fader down seems stupid as it only peaks very small a dozen or so times. i also tried a compressor which stopped the peaking but did some wierd stuff to the synth.

thanks
jamie
 
if it peaks a dozen times bring the volume down.
 
It seems as if you're pushing the volume beyond where it wants to be.
 
Are you in a daw? Go in and find the track(s) source of the peaks and pull them down at the spikes.
If your not automated, on a mixer, it's masking tape with lots of little level-change marks on them.. :eek: :D
Wayne
 
jamtheguitarman said:
at various points during the song, the master output peaks occasionally, i cant hear any clipping but the meter still goes into the red momenterally. i am trying to get rid of this as i assume its bad news, is it problem?
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Yes it is. ;)

It sounds like you're saying that the individual track levels are OK but when you mix down to stereo the mixdown clips in places. The fix for this is easy. Go back to your individual tracks in your editing software and drop the volume of each track slightly and by the same amount. This will have the effect of dropping the total overal volume of your mixdown without affecting the quality or balance of the actual mix. How much you need to drop each track depends on how hot your peaks are and how many total tracks you have, but you shouldn't have to drop it too much. Anywhere from a half a dB to two dB per track should suffice. Start at a half-dB per track and mixdown. If that's not enough then go to a full dB per track and mixdown again. Repeat if necessary.

G.
 
ok thanks, ill go and move each track sown a few db. by the way, im using Cubase SL3, i dont have any mastering software.

It sounds like you're saying that the individual track levels are OK but when you mix down to stereo the mixdown clips in places
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i havent yet mixed down.
 
jamtheguitarman said:
ok thanks, ill go and move each track sown a few db. by the way, im using Cubase SL3, i dont have any mastering software.



i havent yet mixed down.
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Whoah, there, Seabiscuit. Dropping each track a few dB right from the start could be too much and you'll just have to work harder to recover it properly in the mastering stage. Be patient and start slow. Especially if you have a lit of tracks (more than three or four).

G.
 
well i just did it. everything seems to be okay now. whats my next step. do i do a mix down, bring the stereo file back into cubase and have some fun with a limiter or something?
 
I know im gonna get crap for saying this, but oh well..

Don't be afraid of the red.. it is true that on digital software, b/c it's all about numbers, anything that goes above 0 or in the red, will technically be distorted and not sound good but this does not always mean that the RED is bad, or at least from my experience.

I feel that if it doesn't sound distorted, and it is in the red, then you are cool.

Just cuz its in the red, does not mean that you are messing up, well maybe techincally you are, and maybe to a really trained ear someone could hear a little digital distortion, but for the most part, mixing in the red is only bad when you hear distortion.

I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.
 
jamtheguitarman said:
well i just did it. everything seems to be okay now. whats my next step. do i do a mix down, bring the stereo file back into cubase and have some fun with a limiter or something?
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Yeah, that's pretty much the plan. What to do with the mixdown depends upon what you feel the mixdown needs. Glad you got past this hurdle. :)

G.
 
tommy mas said:
I know im gonna get crap for saying this, but oh well..

Don't be afraid of the red.. it is true that on digital software, b/c it's all about numbers, anything that goes above 0 or in the red, will technically be distorted and not sound good but this does not always mean that the RED is bad, or at least from my experience.

I feel that if it doesn't sound distorted, and it is in the red, then you are cool.

Just cuz its in the red, does not mean that you are messing up, well maybe techincally you are, and maybe to a really trained ear someone could hear a little digital distortion, but for the most part, mixing in the red is only bad when you hear distortion.

I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.
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If you can't hear the difference, then what's the point of letting it clip?

I'll answer that for you; you're not clipping for effect, you're clipping for convenience. It's a justification for a lazy and improper way of boosting your RMS volume without properly processing your signal. "Just turn it up, the clipping don't matter." Why do it right when you can get away with doing it fast, right?

G.
 
what im saying is, i hear the difference..

for example, i will be working on a mix, that has the master level below the red, and it will sound ok, but will be low... when i turn up the volume on the indivudual tracks (according to how much each one needs to be boosted) and boost the master meeter into the red, i hear that the mix sounds much richer, fuller, louder, and at the same time, not distorting.

of course if I was mixing, and I turned up the volume to get the meter in the red, but all I heard was distortion and it didnt sound good, i would lower it out of the red..

but what im trying to say is, sometimes you can mix in the red and it is fine, at least in my opinion.
 
well, that seemed easy enough :confused: . i mixed it down and fired up the Classic series free limiter, stuck on the first preset and the volume shot up :) . now its perfectly situated in the yellow :) . ill try and post the song on here today\tommorow and see how it goes. is that me done :confused:
 
tommy mas said:
for example, i will be working on a mix, that has the master level below the red, and it will sound ok, but will be low... when i turn up the volume on the indivudual tracks (according to how much each one needs to be boosted) and boost the master meeter into the red, i hear that the mix sounds much richer, fuller, louder, and at the same time, not distorting.
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Which is exactly what I described. You are ignoring the fact that you're clipping as an easy way to boost your RMS levels to make the mix sound louder.

If you knew how to do it properly, you'd be able to boost your volume without clipping and it would most likely sound even better than it already does. You might even be able to get *more* volume and "richness" out of your mix that way. It's called "premastering the mixdown" and it's a full one third of the job of "recording" that you're ignoring.

G.
 
jamtheguitarman said:
well, that seemed easy enough :confused: . i mixed it down and fired up the Classic series free limiter, stuck on the first preset and the volume shot up :) . now its perfectly situated in the yellow :) . ill try and post the song on here today\tommorow and see how it goes. is that me done :confused:
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Hey jam, if you're happy with the result, then it's done :)

But there's a few things that you'll learn (hopefully along with tommy) as the days go by:

1.) No, it is not that easy unless you're really lucky or really forgiving of your sound. Doing a great job of pre-mastering (the part of the process that's applied after mixing down) is often almost as involved as the mixing itself, and rarely involves just putting a limiter on the first preset and letting it fly (no more than just pumping the volume 'till its as loud as you want, clipping be damned). That may have improved the result, but I'd hazard it to be a pretty safe guess that there's still a lot of room for improvement. As you read this forum and get feedback on your efforts, you'll learn the processes that are involved in sqeezing the best out of a mixdown and making it shine as bright as it should.

2.) Never NEVER assume that you'll automatically be throwing a limiter on the mixdown. While it's true that a limiter is used on most mixdowns, that should be a decision that's made due to an analysis of how the mixdown sounds, looks and feels, not as an automatic thing that done no matter what. I've had mixdowns where throwing a limiter on it made it sound worse instead of better.

3.) A year from now you'll go back and listen to today's result (if you still have it then) and chuckle and say to yourself either, "What was I thinking?" or "Boy have I improved." Much of that improvement is going to come from what you learn between now and then about (pre)mastering the mixdown.

4.) Sometime in the next 36 hours you're going to compare your result with a commercial CD and you're going to want to come running back to this forum and ask, "How come my mix doesn't sound as good or loud as my CDs do." Don't. This question comes up in this forum several times a week. Just do a forum search on that topic and you'll find scores of threads with hundreds of responses chock full of good information on that topic.

The search results from #4 along with the responses you'll get when you post your song (don't take them personally if they sound harsh) will be the start of your new learning experience that will take you to that point next year where you'll be chuckling. ;)

G.
 
i usually mix so its about 4 or 5 db over the red in the master meter..

im sure this is looked down upon, and considered wrong, but i never have gone outside of my house to mix or master, and im pretty pleased with the results...
 
tommy mas said:
I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.
Click to expand...

tommy mas said:
www.soundclick.com/teamfacelift

examples here...
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tommy mas said:
i usually mix so its about 4 or 5 db over the red in the master meter..

im sure this is looked down upon, and considered wrong, but i never have gone outside of my house to mix or master, and im pretty pleased with the results...
Click to expand...

Got news for you, skippy... your mixes are COMPLETELY distorted... they sound awful -- a great example of digital distortion at its finest. The kick drum sounds like a fart - a wet one, at that....

You better start listening to the wise people here who are telling you the PROPER techniques, because clearly, you have no concept of what good clean sound is.... :rolleyes:
 
tommy mas said:
I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.
Click to expand...

There is marked distortion on the kick, the release tail of the "piano" and many of the vocals. This doesn't sound good nor professional. I think you should refine your mixing techniques to conform to the standard.

God help you if you were doing music that wasn't simple to produce like hip hop. I shudder to imagine any rock or metal produced using your anti-method.

The sad thing is your mixes aren't even sufficiently "loud" by today's standards.

If you are at all interested in making quality sounding audio you have to lose this bad habit. And if you aren't interested in learning to mix right, at least don't spread your disease. There's already PLENTY of duff sounding recordings out there in the world.
 
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