Okay, here’s a question:

[monty]

I went to one of the local music stores today to have the nut lowered on the Mexi-Strat I recently bought. First thing the guy says is “The neck’s warped”. I thought what the fuck is he talking about, I said do you mean the bow (the concave curve I have on all my guitars)? He said “Yes”. I said I put as much bow in it as I needed because I lowered the bridge. So he said that’s not how to do it, I should make the neck straighter and thus the strings would be lower. That’s true except the strings up by the nut will still be as far away from the fretboard either way, so I need to lower the nut. He said “You’re the only one in the world who does it that way”. I also pointed out how the saddle hex screws actually wobbled in the threaded holes and he said that is normal. Point is, after he said enough, I bought a set of strings and took my guitar home with me. So…am I the “only one in the world” who lowers the strings, then adjusts the truss rod to just beyond the point of rattle, instead of keeping the neck not as bowed, and adjusting only the bridge? Am I making this clear enough?

 

[bongolation]

Man, I wish I had a nickle for every moron "guitar tech" I've heard about in the various net venues.

For what it's worth, as explained above, you're both way off.

In any case, none of this has anything to do with nut "lowering," which is about matching groove height more closely with the fret plane on a level fingerboard in order to stay in tune when fretting strings on the first few frets, not raising nor lowering action.

My guess is that (in addition to proper trussrod setup) you probably do need fret and nut work both - but that's an easy call as 95% of the new guitars I've seen did.

Check out Fender's MrGearHead.Com site for standard setup instructions, which will help you understand what a quick-&-dirty neck and saddle adjustment is trying to accomplish.

 

[monty]

I’m trying to set the strings for the least amount of resistance, which would require having them as close to the fretboard as possible. The strings near the nut are held away from the fretboard by the nut itself. The only way to make the strings closer at that position is to cut the grooves lower in the nut. The only way to make the strings closer at the bridge is by adjusting the bridge height. What happens between the bridge and the nut depends on the curve in the neck. So it would seem that after getting the ends of the neck (the nut & bridge) closest to the stings by the methods I just mentioned, the neck would be adjusted as straight as possible to just before where the strings rattle against the frets, in between the nut and bridge.

 

[toyL]

a very slight amount of forward-bow can be desirable--so long as the strings are tunable...this forward bow is known as "neck relief"--it seems to relieve some of the "tension" in the strings--gives them a "looser feel"...nut-height adjustments (for individual strings) can also be desirable--again, so long as the strings are tunable...

 

[M.Brane]

Don't sweat it, dude!

I like a lot of relief on my necks too. I also don't like my action too low so that I can really dig in on string bends.

I've seen a lot of guitars with the nut slots too high, especially cheapies.

 

[monty]

a very slight amount of forward-bow can be desirable--so long as the strings are tunable...this forward bow is known as "neck relief"--it seems to relieve some of the "tension" in the strings--gives them a "looser feel"...nut-height adjustments (for individual strings) can also be desirable--again, so long as the strings are tunable...

Yup.

 

[toyL]

I've read that a general-rule is .010 space between the bottom of the string and the top of the 6th fret--while fretting the 4th fret...

 

[monty]

Re: Don't sweat it, dude!

I like a lot of relief on my necks too. I also don't like my action too low so that I can really dig in on string bends.

I've seen a lot of guitars with the nut slots too high, especially cheapies.

I want low action over the length of the neck, as much as possible. It’s easier for me to play single notes faster as well as make chords. The strings have their biggest swing towards the middle of the neck, hence the bow or relief. That’s how I see it anyway.

 

[monty]

I've read that a general-rule is .010 space between the bottom of the string and the top of the 6th fret--while fretting the 4th fret...

Thanks...that's the sort of info I'm looking for.

 

[monty]

It would seem to me, that the distance between the second fret and the string, when the string is pushed down at the first fret, without rattles, would dictate the safe distance where strings can sit over the first fret in an open position. In other words the distance of the bottom of the nut slot. This is hard to put into words. Maybe I can come up with a picture.

 

[M.Brane]

Re: Re: Don't sweat it, dude!

The strings have their biggest swing towards the middle of the neck, hence the bow or relief. That’s how I see it anyway.

I'd say you see it like it is.

As action goes mine is still low, but I could go lower on a couple of mine. When I do my setups I take it down as far as I can, then bring it up until I get just enough bite. Usually ends up about 1.5mm at the 12th fret on my electrics.

 

[M.Brane]

It would seem to me, that the distance between the second fret and the string, when the string is pushed down at the first fret, without rattles, would dictate the safe distance where strings can sit over the first fret in an open position. In other words the distance of the bottom of the nut slot. This is hard to put into words. Maybe I can come up with a picture.

I'm sure you've seen a guitar with a zero fret.

 

[monty]

The fret right next to the nut? Yes. I made one of those once to fix a worn out nut on a cheap guitar.

 

[M.Brane]

The fret right next to the nut? Yes. I made one of those once to fix a worn out nut on a cheap guitar.

Exactly! The only purpose of a nut on a guitar with a zero fret is to maintain string spacing.

The slots in a regular nut should be at the same level as a zero fret would be. Another way to do it is to fret the strings at the second fret, and cut the slots until the string just touch the first fret.

 

[monty]

Exactly! The only purpose of a nut on a guitar with a zero fret is to maintain string spacing.

The slots in a regular nut should be at the same level as a zero fret would be. Another way to do it is to fret the strings at the second fret, and cut the slots until the string just touch the first fret.

Ya, that looks like it would work. I think I'd also like to change the angle of the neck or file some of the bridge frets lower. That's getting pretty carried away on a Mexi-Strat though, so I doubt if I'll ever do it. I still want an American, but don't want to spend money. I told the guy at the guitar store I was trying to have an American at the price of a Mexican...he laughed and said he was too and to let him know when I was able to do it.

 

[monty]

I think part of the problem with guitar techs is they try to push what works for them onto everybody else. This tech I went to see is into blues, and was quoting blues related stuff about picking sounds and such. I’m not into blues and I like ‘dead’ strings. I use my fingers when I do certain stuff...I'm sure he uses a pick always. It’s like we’re in different guitar worlds.

 

[64Firebird]

At Mr. Gearhead, you can download 5 steps to a great guitar setup (it's a PDF file). It may not be what you're looking for, but it's a really good place to start.

Click here.

 

[dragonworks]

first you should learn to play your guitar before you try and adjust it.

Does that answer your question dumbass?

It would also help if you knew which end was which

The neck has them 6 little knobs that if you turn them you break the strings.

 

[Dani Pace]

OK lets look at several possibilities; 1 neck bowed too much? Press down the top E string on the 1st fret and on the last fret, look at the amount of space between the string and the frets abuot half way down the neck, a little gap is ok but if there is very much you need to tighten the truss rod, if there is none you need to loosen it. It's that simple and that easy.
2 nut too high? Press string (you have to do each one individualy) on the second fret (actually between 2nd and 3rd) and look at the gap between the string and the first fret, this should be no more than a few thousandths of an inch,notebook paper is about 3/1000 and thats about what you are looking for. If you need to, move the string out of it's slot and useing a needle file carefully file the slot to the desired depth. Do this a little at a time checking the string hight at the first fret often, if you cut it too deep the string will buzz or contact the first fret when played open. Repeat the process for all strings,you may want to have a little more hight toward the bass strings to prevent rattlle.
3 Action too high? correct this by adjusting the hight of the bridge saddles, take them down till the string buzzes just a little then raise them back up untill there is no more buzzing.
4 frets need filed? Yes this can be done but you will need a concave file and a large flat file to do it. First file the frets to the desired hight with the flat file then use the concave file to round the frets slightly. If you leave the top of the frets flat they will buzz.
5 Check and set intonation. Thats the forward/backward movement of the bridge saddles. to do this , tune the guitar then compaire the tones at the octave (12th fret) if the octave note is high adjust the saddle towards the back of the guitar, if the note is low adjust the saddle towards the neck. Do this in small steps and check your tuning frequently. If you plan to use your guitar for recording you should have someone do this useing a strobe tuner.
6 Don't forget the pick ups. After all this other adjusting you will probabaly need to make some small adjustments to your pick ups, this is largely a matter of what sounds best but a good rule of thumb is ... too high, they will distort; too low they wont pick up all they can or should, and allways set the bass side a little lower than the high side.
Do all of this and if you didn't get carried away with the files you should have a guitar that plays as good as it possibly can or you can spend a couple of hundred bucks and have someone else do it for you, either way the end results should be about the same.
Best of luck, Dani

 

[KaBudokan]

THANK YOU DANI!!!

I just read through all of this stuff - there's a lot of "not-very-good" advice here... lol The people saying to go to Mr. Gearhead were also right.

M.Brane - If you file the nut that low - to where the strings actually touch the first fret when pressing down at the second, that's too low, and you'll usually get buzz.

Monty - Don't use the truss rod to adjust action at all. It should be the first thing you adjust, and the proper amopunt of neck relief is dialed in regardless of how high you set the action at the bridge, and regardless of how low the nut is filed. Like Dani said, fret at the first and last fret (I use a capo at the first fret, and a finger on the last) of the 6th string. At the 8th fret (some people recommend the 9th) you should have about .010" distance between the string and the fret. .009" is ok for some people, others like it more (up to maybe .012"). As you can see (by fretting at the 1st and last fret), this measurement/adjustment is independent of the action.

Again - The truss rod should be the first adjustment you make, before you set action.

One other thing - this is just me, but I wouldn't file frets myself. I do most of the work on my guitars, but that's something I don't think should be left to us hacks.

Definitely go look at the Mr. Gearhead site - you may be surprised my how much better your guitar sounds and plays... Just my 2 cents.