Ok, our band's first CD recorded in our studio--please, we need suggestions badly!

I'm not a huge fan of the kick drum sound for your genre. It really does have a Vinnie Paul metal click sound, which I don't really think gels with everything else, especially the bass tone you're using. It almost sounds like drum triggers. What kind of mallet is your drummer using?
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I'm not a fan of that kick sound either, it needs more of a "bass drum" sound. The drummer is using the hard side of the standard DW 5000 beater. The click sound came almost all from the EQ.

Very very very good song, but some showstopping timing issues going on here with the drums, specifically the kick and snare. It's killing me.
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I probably wouldn't go as far as to say showstopping, but definitely annoying for another drummer to listen to and pick out. All the recordings were tracked with a metronome. I'm not exactly sure why they seem inconsistent. All the fills in this song are single stroke which can be heard pretty easily, and especially towards the beginning it seems like the rolls were rushed slightly then pulled back to stay in tempo. The more I listen to the song, the more I believe the beginning (at least) was recorded under tempo. If the beat sounds rushed then that would be the result of it being under tempo and also the drummer not being able to play as evenly at slower tempos. Getting guitar tracks down in time or just with the metronome wasn't so easy.

He's playing the snare well
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Travis probably thought that was funny.

I'll have to hand it to him though, he's been playing for what, 3 years? And it's my understanding he's done the majority of his improving fairly recently.

-Drew Preston, The Capitol's drummer and Travis' studio partner ;)
 
but for real, thanks everyone for the suggestions. i will definitely take everything from there and really pay attention to the next recording we go into. Hopefully in another 2 years we'll be able to help out people as well. take care and if there are anymore suggestions, feel free to lay them on us.

and to plug it one more time, check out www.myspace.com/thecapitol1
 
Just wanted to add another postive response to this song. The song writing is very good and everything well played. The drums may not be perfect (and the suggestions have already been provided) but I think overall this was a good sound. A big thumbs up to the vocalist too - very nice voice. Great job...
 
thank you very much! hopefully we can continue to improve and again, I am certainly thankful for all criticism.
 
TravisK said:
oh, and bill--that's actually our drummer's last name, preston. maybe ya'll are related. and thanks for the emery compliment, we are big fans of them.
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Yes, Emery is a great band...but I have to say that after seeing them live three times, I don't like their live sound at all. Their energy is awesome, but thier live sound...eh.

Also, this is not intended at an attempt to hijack this thread by any means, but my screen name is hardly my real name. Am I the only one that has seen Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? But I digress.

Please carry on with more meaningful discussions.

Signed,

Bill S. Preston, Esquire (no relation to The Capitol's Drummer)
 
Panning is a bit much, but it still sounds good to me. I like the lead singers voice alot! I didn't really like the guitar feedback in the left speaker that much, but once it drops everything seems to sit well. Great song, btw.
 
holy crap, i have seen it, but it's been ages. wow. i knew that sounded familiar...i was thinking it sounded like some famous drummer's name (maybe thinking of bill stevenson).

Anyways...wow. Thanks guys!!
 
sounds good. The drums seem to wander off time through out the song and the guitars are panned a little to hard, other than that it sounds good, i like the sound of the drum kit, its just not a tight performance.
 
yeah, the tight performance seems to be our biggest flaw. And most people have issues with the panning.

I have a quick question about all that. I have been listening to quite a bit of songs and they all seem to have quite a bit of hard panning. Even some Led Zepplin tracks. Could you guys perhaps point me in the direction of something that isn't panned quite so hard?

Thanks guys!
 
TravisK said:
yeah, the tight performance seems to be our biggest flaw. And most people have issues with the panning.

I have a quick question about all that. I have been listening to quite a bit of songs and they all seem to have quite a bit of hard panning. Even some Led Zepplin tracks. Could you guys perhaps point me in the direction of something that isn't panned quite so hard?

Thanks guys!
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Stand your ground, boy! Listen to the first Emery album -- everything there is pretty hard-panned. Even a lot of the screams are multiple tracks of screams panned hard right/left, and up the middle. Many of their hard-panned guitar parts are two totally different melodies as well. Again, it's all up to what you think sounds good for your particular band. But as everyone has stated here, just experiment a little bit to see if a 90/90 spread works better for you.
 
actually bill, we did a 90/90 spread. So maybe an 80/80?

Funny huh...i know we'll never please everyone, but my goal is to hit most!
 
i think it's been mentioned before, but hard panning sounds excellent if the two parts are similar. i've done it on numerous occasions. but where parts are very different (ie, an acoustic guitar vs electric, or arpeggios/lead lines, etc), they just need to be brought in a bit. you can almost feel your head/ears settling back to normal when you take the headphones off.
like i said before, on a stereo/monitors, it sounds excellent. but i guess that since so many people listen via headphones (ie, the end listener, not the engineer/mixer), it has to be dealt with a bit to at least make it a more comfortable listen.
just my opinion of course. try to match what you hard-pan in the other ear or just bring the parts in a bit.

cheers
 
Sounds great dudes. :)
If I had to nit pick about the mix I would say that there seems to be an EQ gap (hole) between the bass and distorted guitars. As if either the guitars dont have enough lo end or the bass has too little lo mids if you know what I mean. Bridging the gap would make the sound bigger.

As I said thats really just nit picking though.
Eck
 
our setup from top to bottom.

OC Drum & Percussion
--13 x 6 20-ply Snare -Miced by SM57 on top, SM58 on bottom
--12 x 7 6-ply Rack Tom -Miced by Samson QTom
--16 x 14 6-ply Floor Tom -Miced by Samson QTom
--22 x 18 6-ply Bass w/ 2 Holz rings on the bass -Miced by Beta52
--Several Zidjian cymbals -Miced by Samson CO2s on seperate sides of kit

Guitar One
--Marshall JCM900 4100 through Hughes and Kettner cab w/ Rickenbacker 620 miced by an SM57

Guitar Two
--Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier (3 channel model) through Jackson cab w/ Gibson Custom SG Platinum miced by an SM57

Acoustic Guitar
--Alvarez Yairi 1983 acoustic (hand crafted by Yairi himself :)) miced by a Groove Tubes GT55 for arpeggios, M-Audio Luna for strumming

Bass Guitar
--Fender Standard Jazz lined into our Aardvark Q10 (And the bass does have a lot of low end because our bassist hates treble in a bass, though I disagree strongly...but it's his sound, so I try to be faithful)

Vocals
--Wesley Keith Forbus Special Edition Man with beard and mustache accessories miced by M-Audio Luna

All of this was done without any outboard hardware other than our Aardvark Q10. Any and all processing was done with the software--25 tracks total for the project in Sonar 4 Producer Edition. All plugins were either Sonitus/Cakewalk or freely available online. We are poor, so we do things as cheaply as possible.

And to Brummy--thanks man, I think I see what you guys are meaning the more i listen to it. Though what would you suggest for a partially electric part and acoustic part? Which should be dubbed? Where should the arpeggios be, the strumming acoustic be and the electric be? Thanks for all of your help. I can't wait to do our next project!

Ecktronic-thanks so much for the kind words. And of course it was all natural. No drum machines, no amp emulators, no midi. Feel free to listen to us more at www.myspace.com/thecapitol1
 
thanks a lot guys...i'm glad we're doing some stuff right finally...this is the first cd i'm really proud of.

And I actually have a big question for all the ones that think the panning is too harsh. I went through my creative micro photo just now, and I have listened to the following.

Weezer - Say It Ain't So
Duckpond - Millencolin
Four Days - Counting Crows (features acoustic and electric)
Kill Me Quickly - Thrice
Too Much - Dave Matthews Band
Ruby Tuesday - The Rolling Stones (though it's strings on left, piano/guitar on right)
Mary Jane's Last Dance - Tom Petty
Ride The Snake - Lagwagon
Whole Lotta Love - Led Zeppelin (in fact, this has some weird ass panning--no other way to put it)
Alien Amplifier - Strung Out

All of those songs feature really hard panned guitars, and many of them do very little of the same thing. I'm not trying to necessarily defend my stance on it, but it seems pretty common amongst all genres. So is this something that just didn't work for this song or is it something that you guys just don't like, including when you listen to any of the bands above?

Thanks!
Travis
 
I don't like the kick drum at all...that sticks out.

Decent guitar tones for the most part I'd say, but agree that maybe you should pan them into the center a bit more...esp. because if playing isn't PERFECTLY tite it makes the track sound a lot more sloppy panned.

I like the acoustic tone too
 
What I'm getting:

The kick has that "slab o' beef" sound to it. A little too much beater sound for me.

The guitar panning isn't a problem, it's it's lack of stereo crossover between the channels. Putting them in the reverb space a little more, enoug so you can hear them cross in the middle, would tie the image together a bit more.

The drum recording is nice and crisp, only lacking a little depth. It either needs some room mic sound or, again, to be placed in the reverb space to tie it all together and make it sound as if all the instruments are in the same space. There is nothing wrong, even in a song like this, for the drums to sound as if they are in the back of the room.

Overall, it doesnt sound bad; good guitar tones, solid vocal recording, crisp drums. The mix is good also. Definately on the right track.
Michael
 
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