Ok, our band's first CD recorded in our studio--please, we need suggestions badly!
- Thread starter TravisK
- Start date
brummygit
Member
TravisK said:
hey there's some nice tones there!
i'm listening through studio headphones.
one thing i noticed was the panning of the guitars maybe a bit OTT until the heavy bit kicks in, then it sounds excellent. in laymans terms (cos that's all i know!), the sound in my left ear (headphones) was the most distracting. the guitar feedback tone at the start of the song seemed unnatural and a little nasty. feedback seems to be one of those strange things that can really sound meaty, but can also sound really pooh. i think the issue there is with the guitar and tracking, rather than the mix tho.
all in all though, apart from the panning+feedback issues, which could just be my own problem, i'd struggle to find any other problems with the way it sounds or the way it's been mixed.
nice song in general, too.
Cheers
mshilarious
Banned
That sounds pretty darn good. I also wasn't a fan of the guitar panning, but I'm not a big fan of hard panning. None of the guitars are in the center, but almost all the drums are. Listen to the side signal (L-R), and you'll hear that the side signal is all guitar.
Also, you have a metal kick drum sound which kind of sticks out. I don't hear the bass tight on the kick either.
Also, you have a metal kick drum sound which kind of sticks out. I don't hear the bass tight on the kick either.
i'm a real big fan of 90/90 guitar panning, picked up from too many days of AC/DC
there are a few center guitar parts, namely the verse centers...but i can see how they get lost (acoustic arpeggios).
But thanks for the suggestions...what percentage would you guys suggest me putting the guitars at?
Right now I have rack tom 28 left, floor tom 28 right, snare center, bass drum center and then guitars at 90 left, 90 right and acoustic middle.
What would make for a more full sound? I seem to get overloaded if the guitars are too centered, if that makes sense.
there are a few center guitar parts, namely the verse centers...but i can see how they get lost (acoustic arpeggios).
But thanks for the suggestions...what percentage would you guys suggest me putting the guitars at?
Right now I have rack tom 28 left, floor tom 28 right, snare center, bass drum center and then guitars at 90 left, 90 right and acoustic middle.
What would make for a more full sound? I seem to get overloaded if the guitars are too centered, if that makes sense.
brummygit
Member
TravisK said:
i wont speak for anything other than the guitars, as i'm still learning other elements. but i'd say move your rhythm gtrs further out in the pan than your arpeggios.
90/90 works if the two parts are fairly even in their intensity and sound (ie two electric rhythm guitars playing a fairly similar chord sequence, but not, for example a rhythm guitar/acoustic guitar or rhythm/arpeggio). try spreading all the guitars between 25 - 55 L/R in the mix. i see where youre going with the AC/DC thing tho. i played it on my stereo system as well as through monitors, and the song is great. it's just headphones that give a bit of uncomfort to listening, and considering that everyone seems to be walkin around with ipods and mp3 players hanging from their ears, i'd say that it's something to consider alot.
in terms of fullness, i think you've pretty much got it. volume/gain/intensity/quality are fine. it's only the panning that seems off.
cheers
Mark
mshilarious
Banned
TravisK said:
That works in some parts that are similar, but not in others. There is nothing to say you can't change panning during the song.
Toms aren't the problem, they are hit infrequently anyway. It's the cymbals being centered that are the big problem. Did you just have one overhead?
I like a slightly off center snare, and maybe bass and kick slighly off, but opposite. Say if the snare is a little R, then kick a little L. If there is a signicant midrange or high content for the bass or kick, then you can pan a little more.
There is a philosophy of panning that says nothing should be dead center or hard panned. I don't have a philosophy, I just try stuff until something works
I'll use center on vocals, but I'll avoid hard panning on just about everything except stereo tracks.
Kevin Lowe
Who is Keyser Soze?
Good Sound
I'm listening on decent headphones. Overall, I think the guitar & bass tones are very good. Vocal is captured nicely. Mix sounds good to me. Perhaps a little heavy on the guitar volumes, but this type of music lends itself to louder guitar so . . . yes, guitars are mixed nicely IMHO. I don't have any problems with the panning. The only thing that sticks out as somewhat problematic -- at least to my ears -- is the drumkit. Specifically, the toms. For whatever reason, they sound a little dull and "boxy" (heck, it could just be my imagination/hangover playing tricks on me). How did you capture them? Sounds like they were moderately dampened. If so, perhaps let them ring a little more. Otherwise, the kit sounds very good. I like the snare and clicky, wet kick.
Overall very good sound, in my opinion. Keep up the good work.
Kevin
I'm listening on decent headphones. Overall, I think the guitar & bass tones are very good. Vocal is captured nicely. Mix sounds good to me. Perhaps a little heavy on the guitar volumes, but this type of music lends itself to louder guitar so . . . yes, guitars are mixed nicely IMHO. I don't have any problems with the panning. The only thing that sticks out as somewhat problematic -- at least to my ears -- is the drumkit. Specifically, the toms. For whatever reason, they sound a little dull and "boxy" (heck, it could just be my imagination/hangover playing tricks on me). How did you capture them? Sounds like they were moderately dampened. If so, perhaps let them ring a little more. Otherwise, the kit sounds very good. I like the snare and clicky, wet kick.
Overall very good sound, in my opinion. Keep up the good work.
Kevin
Thanks for all the input guys. Our weakest mics are our overheads and tom mics. The overheads are definitely stereo, and i'm not sure why it's not being represented as stereo. I hope to God I didn't miss anything with the overheads as we always have them panned 35/65. Really odd....but i think i hear stereo from them just fine, though i'm not sure. This song actually has the least stereo imaging of all on the CD, it just happened to be the one we're letting be downloaded. Haha...
But are the overheads really coming in as mono? They are Samson CO2's, so they are very cheap, but there was definitely 2 on there....and they were on either side of the kit.
I might try the snare/bass drum slightly off thing, i've never thought that it would work. We'll definitely look into that next time.
And thanks for all the compliments. If you want to hear more of the cd check out http://www.myspace.com/thecapitol1
It means a lot to me since all you guys have been so helpful in getting our studio to where it is now in the past. So keep on bringing the help because I only want to get better.
Oh yeah, you asked about the toms. They were too boomy before, so we had to eq the hell out of them. maybe too much? we have samson qtoms which are cheap, cheap, cheap. I wanna get some better overheads and tom mics very soon. but we'll see when we get the cash! so there was a lot of eq that might have squashed them too much. Basically they made a "blaugh-wee" sound. I don't know how to describe the sound better than that, haha. So we cut the mids some to reduce the odd ring. (And we definitely tried tuning them, they sound fine live, it's the crappy mics that are coloring them too much)
But are the overheads really coming in as mono? They are Samson CO2's, so they are very cheap, but there was definitely 2 on there....and they were on either side of the kit.
I might try the snare/bass drum slightly off thing, i've never thought that it would work. We'll definitely look into that next time.
And thanks for all the compliments. If you want to hear more of the cd check out http://www.myspace.com/thecapitol1
It means a lot to me since all you guys have been so helpful in getting our studio to where it is now in the past. So keep on bringing the help because I only want to get better.
Oh yeah, you asked about the toms. They were too boomy before, so we had to eq the hell out of them. maybe too much? we have samson qtoms which are cheap, cheap, cheap. I wanna get some better overheads and tom mics very soon. but we'll see when we get the cash! so there was a lot of eq that might have squashed them too much. Basically they made a "blaugh-wee" sound. I don't know how to describe the sound better than that, haha. So we cut the mids some to reduce the odd ring. (And we definitely tried tuning them, they sound fine live, it's the crappy mics that are coloring them too much)
Last edited:
mshilarious
Banned
TravisK said:
No, not mono, but not very wide, either. Has little to do with the quality of the mics. I thought maybe what I was hearing of the cymbals on the sides might be bleed into the tom mics, but I'm happy to be wrong
I'd definitely try panning them harder. Switch their panning with the guitars! Pan the toms harder too, maybe 50.
giraffe
i love negative rep
i think i hear phasing in the distorted guits.
honestly, i'm just getting to the point where i can recognize that sort of thing so i may be wrong. but it could be why there’s not as much power in the distorted guitars as maybe you want.
not the biggest fan of the panning. maybe get more image from reverbs and less from panning?
in a perfect world i'd double the rhythm and pan it wide and run the lead up the center or maybe a little off to the side, and the same with the acu.
overs sound mono, but a mono kit really doesn't bother me that much.
(you can get enough image from a good reverb)
sounds good to me.
honestly, i'm just getting to the point where i can recognize that sort of thing so i may be wrong. but it could be why there’s not as much power in the distorted guitars as maybe you want.
not the biggest fan of the panning. maybe get more image from reverbs and less from panning?
in a perfect world i'd double the rhythm and pan it wide and run the lead up the center or maybe a little off to the side, and the same with the acu.
overs sound mono, but a mono kit really doesn't bother me that much.
(you can get enough image from a good reverb)
sounds good to me.
thanks, about the power, this song was meant to be a bit less powerful. So that's not an issue, it's the lightest song on the CD. So power definitely isn't something i'm worried about.
and where did you hear phasing on the electrics? I hear it on the acoustic and it bothers me a lot, but i'm the only one who has heard it yet. Which is why i haven't said anything to see if you notice it.
check out http://www.myspace.com/thecapitol1 to hear another song off that CD. maybe it can give you a better idea of the concept too.
thanks so much again, all of this is being considered and will likely help our next effort a lot! you guys are the best.
and where did you hear phasing on the electrics? I hear it on the acoustic and it bothers me a lot, but i'm the only one who has heard it yet. Which is why i haven't said anything to see if you notice it.
check out http://www.myspace.com/thecapitol1 to hear another song off that CD. maybe it can give you a better idea of the concept too.
thanks so much again, all of this is being considered and will likely help our next effort a lot! you guys are the best.
Supercreep
Lizard People
Very very very good song, but some showstopping timing issues going on here with the drums, specifically the kick and snare. It's killing me.
Bill S. Preston
New member
Hey Travis,
First up, I really like your band's sound; I think you have something cool going on. I know every band hates comparisons to other bands, but I get a strong Emery/Acceptance feel from your group (take it as a compliment, I dig both).
That being said, I agree with the poster above me that mentioned the timing issues with the drums, specifically at the beginning of the song. If there are *drumming* issues within the first few bars of a tune, it starts me off with a bad impression of the group's abilities, but not in the cool Sonic-Youth-We-Don't-Care-About-Tuning sort of way. I do, however, think the singer sounds right on, and that the guitars sound great. In my opinion I really like the hard-panned guitars on each side, I personally never pan things 90/90. I just like the way it sounds. I can't speak for AC/DC, but I know that a ton of albums I hear now (Saosin, FFAF, FATA, etc) all have hard-panned guitars, but hey, whatever you think sounds better I suppose.
One more thing about the drums - I'm not a huge fan of the kick drum sound for your genre. It really does have a Vinnie Paul metal click sound, which I don't really think gels with everything else, especially the bass tone you're using. It almost sounds like drum triggers. What kind of mallet is your drummer using?
Other than that, great work. I'll look you guys up when I'm in the area.
Bill S. Preston, Esquire
First up, I really like your band's sound; I think you have something cool going on. I know every band hates comparisons to other bands, but I get a strong Emery/Acceptance feel from your group (take it as a compliment, I dig both).
That being said, I agree with the poster above me that mentioned the timing issues with the drums, specifically at the beginning of the song. If there are *drumming* issues within the first few bars of a tune, it starts me off with a bad impression of the group's abilities, but not in the cool Sonic-Youth-We-Don't-Care-About-Tuning sort of way. I do, however, think the singer sounds right on, and that the guitars sound great. In my opinion I really like the hard-panned guitars on each side, I personally never pan things 90/90. I just like the way it sounds. I can't speak for AC/DC, but I know that a ton of albums I hear now (Saosin, FFAF, FATA, etc) all have hard-panned guitars, but hey, whatever you think sounds better I suppose.
One more thing about the drums - I'm not a huge fan of the kick drum sound for your genre. It really does have a Vinnie Paul metal click sound, which I don't really think gels with everything else, especially the bass tone you're using. It almost sounds like drum triggers. What kind of mallet is your drummer using?
Other than that, great work. I'll look you guys up when I'm in the area.
Bill S. Preston, Esquire
Passing Thru
New member
I think this sounds really good except for the drums. I don't like the click on your kick. It seems over done. I know that sound is popular now. I thought maybe I was being to picky. But to me the drummers opening roles and fills were slightly out of time. Your drummer is just to busy with that kick if you ask me. To me it sounds like the drummer is sort of learning the song or nervous about what is coming next.
Overlooking the drums I'd say this is really quite good.
Overlooking the drums I'd say this is really quite good.
mshilarious
Banned
I popped in OK Computer which has the hardest panned guitars I can think of in my record collection. I think the difference is the relatively mono drumming on your track, so maybe your guitars will be OK where they are if you fix that. Also, in places Yorke's vocal is off center. Basically they do some different things in places to create balance.
I still wouldn't leave the guitars 90/90 for the whole record, add some variety
I still wouldn't leave the guitars 90/90 for the whole record, add some variety
thanks guys, the drummer is only 17 and has been playing for just a few years, so he has some maturing to do. So hopefully that will smooth over with experience and age, as he has been progressing wonderfully. In fact, I tell him he's too busy all the time, but I can see where you guys are coming from. I'll pass that on to him.
And like I said, this song may have too much in not enough seperation. i'll definitely look into that next time we record, just sitting places better. We've been doing this for under two years, so we still have a long ways to go and all the input is helping tremendously!!!
But again, check out www.myspace.com/thecapitol1 and listen to the other songs on there. Let me know if those are suffering from the same or if it's more what it should be? I'm just curious if it's just this song or if it's others as well. It'll be a big help knowing what needs to be changed overall.
Thanks so much again guys!!!!
And like I said, this song may have too much in not enough seperation. i'll definitely look into that next time we record, just sitting places better. We've been doing this for under two years, so we still have a long ways to go and all the input is helping tremendously!!!
But again, check out www.myspace.com/thecapitol1 and listen to the other songs on there. Let me know if those are suffering from the same or if it's more what it should be? I'm just curious if it's just this song or if it's others as well. It'll be a big help knowing what needs to be changed overall.
Thanks so much again guys!!!!
I chuckled over the comment about the 17 year old coming from a 21 year old ... some of us here are a couple years beyond that ... no slight intended ... just perhaps a wistful sigh.
In any case, this mix is really pretty close to done. The hard panning of the guitars is fine, so long as not every song has the same positioning on the album (as someone pointed out above). For this song, I didn't mind it at all.
Due to the fact I have a nineteen year old son, I actually listen a lot to this genre ... and I like the genre a lot ... as it's got a ton of energy and there are some excellent writers in this area.
...unfortunately, in this case, I felt the recording better than the song -- it just didn't thrill me. Though the performances conveyed a LOT of energy, the writing didn't strike me as anything special. I don't mean to be harsh, just honestly conveying my personal opinion ... which I hope is as positively taken as it is given.
Perhaps there's other material the band plays that I might enjoy more ... but this song is slightly borderline better than a lot of other similar stuff ... To me, it's representative of good B-side material ... good, but not so good as to get a band signed ... not this one, anyway.
My two- FWIW...
Best,
Kev
In any case, this mix is really pretty close to done. The hard panning of the guitars is fine, so long as not every song has the same positioning on the album (as someone pointed out above). For this song, I didn't mind it at all.
Due to the fact I have a nineteen year old son, I actually listen a lot to this genre ... and I like the genre a lot ... as it's got a ton of energy and there are some excellent writers in this area.
...unfortunately, in this case, I felt the recording better than the song -- it just didn't thrill me. Though the performances conveyed a LOT of energy, the writing didn't strike me as anything special. I don't mean to be harsh, just honestly conveying my personal opinion ... which I hope is as positively taken as it is given.
Perhaps there's other material the band plays that I might enjoy more ... but this song is slightly borderline better than a lot of other similar stuff ... To me, it's representative of good B-side material ... good, but not so good as to get a band signed ... not this one, anyway.
My two- FWIW...
Best,
Kev
notes from Mr. Grammar
When you say you need suggestions badly, the literal meaning of that sentence is that you are not very skillful at needing suggestions. I believe that this is not your intention. You should therefore take note that in the future, you should say that you need suggestions poorly.
When you say you need suggestions badly, the literal meaning of that sentence is that you are not very skillful at needing suggestions. I believe that this is not your intention. You should therefore take note that in the future, you should say that you need suggestions poorly.
noisedude
New member
I think all my thoughts have already been covered. He's playing the snare well, it's perhaps not being mic'd brilliantly ... the cymbals seem stuck in the middle (try an overhead x-y arrangement if you've been doing spaced) but other than that it's just the guitar pannings and the clicky bass drum.
Vocals and guitars sound ace to me, well done.
Vocals and guitars sound ace to me, well done.