ok...I am going to try and

[TripleM]

You know I've felt like mixmkr a bunch of times. I've actually listened to many tunes and ended up not responding because I didn't think it was that great, but there were 20 posts saying it was.

Maybe that was wrong huh?

But what about this???... What if a song is produced terrifically, has real interesting music, but the lyrics are so canned, repetitive, and trite that it makes me puke? Should I make that comment (perhaps more gently than that ) even after 20 people gushed over it? Afterall, it's an MP3 clinic, not a songwriting clinic.

I know I turn a recording critique into a songwriting critique sometimes (songwriting is a big thing with me). But I don't usually over-do it. I just pull my punches at times. Right or wrong I do it.

And mix... Sam pointed it out, but I noticed too (as I'm sure a bunch of others did) that you don't post the high value critiques that you used to do. Please don't think I'm an ass for mentioning this. I don't have any clue what your time contraints are. You don't owe anybody around here anything. The reverse is more the case. I just mention it because I miss it.

 

[WATYF]

Re: And I'll Add Something Else, Too

and for WATYF to point out everything else....

LM@O....






My problem is... I'm too d@mn nice....................


Now that I've gotten to know everybody around here, I just have such a hard time telling 'em that their stuff stucks....










WATYF

 

[Middleman]

I'm thinking we need some kind of general structure to our critiques so that they are more benefical. Something like this.

Comments on....
Drums:
Bass:
Guitars:
Pads and Keyboards:
Vocals:
Production:
Song structure:
General comments:

And the person with the tune needs to supply some data too. Such as:

Mics, preamps, hardware effects, software plug ins. Buss effects etc.

This could at least provide feedback both directions for those who need to learn and those who have more experience.

 

[participant]

I would respond with more critical stuff if I had the time; recently, I have not.

But bumping someone's thread w/a pat on the back is OK, if that's all I have to offer at the time.



Rip it all apart, if you must!

 

[crawdad]

Its all relative. Some people who are just starting out probably feel a sense of awe when they hear any recording that is a cut above what they can do at this time. On the other end of the spectrum, we have people with deep skills and great ears who are capable of hearing problems with a mix or a song.

The gushing doesn't influence me. If I think something is obviously wrong, I say so. In truth, I am a song person. If the song is really working then it almost makes the recording sound better.

Anyway, we shouldn't let ego politics dictate this clinic. By that I mean, if I say something nice about your song, then you'll say something nice about mine in return. The only purpose here is to get an accurate picture of your work, whether its mix comments or song comments or both. The truth is what helps me the most.

If something IS radio ready, I'll say so. If it ain't, then I try to focus on what could be improved. Bottom line: tell it like it is. I think you do that Mixmkr.

 

[Bob A. Vader]

i have only been commenting on the content of a song...and not the mix...i feel that i dont have the ears to comment on the mix yet...and also...everyone i have heard so far has better mixing/musicianship skills than i have

but when i do say i like a song...it usually means the i like the mix too...

maybe when i get better at this stuff i can offer better criticism

 

[B.SABBATH]

I totally agree with A1.... this thread is awesome... I've never read a thread quite this awesome before...!!! You da man, mix! Don't change a thing!






And Sam... I think it's just a matter of perspective. To a seasoned jazz musician, Avril Lavigne is total crap... to a 14 year old who likes punk music and spends all his time on a skateboard, she's amazing. Now,.. I know that's an extreme example... but what I'm saying is, I don't doubt there are people who think certain stuff around here is "awesome", while there are others who think that the exact same stuff really needs work to reach its full potential. That's just the way musical taste/experience differences work.


I do understand what mix is saying, though... I honestly think we're slowly lowering the bar. Every time someone comes along who can put together a halfway decent mix, they get inundated with comments about how amazing it is, and how those commenting could never do better, etc. etc. etc... But what we need is a constant challenge to do better... to push the limit... to raise the bar...

and it's hard to do that when 9 out of 10 replies in a thread are gushing about how great the song is. I just experienced that myself... there was a song that I listened to and I wanted to comment about an aspect of the song that I thought seriously detracted from the recording, but I just held back because there was so much "This is amazing!" going on... so yeah... I understand what he's talking aboot... it can get intimidating in situations like that... Now,... should I have been intimidated...?? No.



...but I think it's important to remind everyone every once in a while that it's good to post very in-depth critiques. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to say "that's amazing"... what I am saying is that we should be encouraging the more "harsh" critiques... People should have no hesitation to post exactly what they thought needed work in a mix, regardless of how great everyone else thought it was...


So... should we put a cap on the "gushing"...? No... I don't think so...


I think we should just keep in mind that no aspiring musician or recording engineer ever learned anything from hearing "you're awesome".


WATYF

dude, I remember when you posted in the other Cranky collaboration thread.. You said something like "not my style, but I know a good recording when I hear it," or something like that.. That was a great way to do it.. Believe me, your one of the kings of complaints, and I like that.. When you said it was a good recording, I was surprised, even though there were 25 other replys saying it was 'awesome.' You could have said something stupid like, "you call that music.. all it is is screaming" or something to that effect..

I do understand what mix is saying, though... I honestly think we're slowly lowering the bar.

fuck the bar! How could the bar be being lowered if everyones recordings are improving? If anything, there are many many bars here.. Just like a child should be scolded when they screw up, or congratulated when they've done right.. There just has been a lot to celebrate lately.. (musically speaking)


Maybe it's frustrating for some people, but there are many hours behind every good mix and, "there ain't nuthin' wrong with saying, 'hey dude, the time you put into this shows, and that was awesome!"

Kinda like what you do with Erland..



I didn't mean to come off so negative mix.. maybe you could drop an example of what your talking about so I will understand better..



This is one of the strangest posts I ever typed in..

and BTW, chrisharris, your shuttle tribute WAS awesome!

 

[James HE]

I hold back a lot in here. i.e a lot of times i just wont post. I'm very glad were having this discussion, maybe this discussion can change the way things work in here for the better.

One thing that i would like to see is for the people putting up the tunes to give some idea what they are looking for in a critique. Is it just developing the mix? Thoughts on the content? A different perspective? I know i'm guilty of this. I'll go back and re-read a post of mine and not even be sure why i posted it or what I was looking for. - hmm no wonder no one ever gives me feedback... lol.
example: Doc had a post a few weeks ago where he asked "what bugs you the most about this" then everyone starts gushing and doc's like- "yeah but, tell me what bugs you the most about this" Doc didn't get the kind of response he wanted at first, but kept pushing, and the responses got a little more in depth.

In general, I wish the cave was a little more critical. A lot of it is personal, but a lot of the tunes i see people gushing over are just ok. We need more assholes in here. I will volunteer my services seriously though. We all need to forget that old saying "if you don't having something nice to say.... " you know the rest.

I see a lot of responses that are prefaced with "this isn't my kind of music. but" or "i don't generally like country, but" - well good! To me this shows an effort to put aside some subjective thoughts and listen in a different way. This is a really good start to help someone with a mix. People more familiar with certain genres are usually more immediatly helpful, but everyone's thoughts are valid.

Still, sometimes it's necessary to see people's purely subcetive thoughts. Something a little more than "this sucks" or "awsome" Tell us why! I want to know!

geeze some of you really need to get in touch with your feelings.

 

[B.SABBATH]

one more thing

9 out of 10 of my threads start with something like 'rip this apart' or 'destroy this' or 'rip this apart as if I insulted you first by asking you to listen.'

all of that means------------"tell me what you hate"


What does this mean?





I have no idea..

 

[alexspetty]

ive really enjoyed this board in my short time here.

ive been able to share my work with others (and gain from their insight and feedback) as well as had the opporunity to appreciate/constructivly critique the music and mixes of many other musicians/audio engineers. not to mention, ive made a few new friends!

this place rules... let no one hesitate to post their work. ive enjoyed listening and commenting on the work of others. i would say the more work posted, the better!!

i think this place provides the rare opportunity for people to improve their own personal engineering skills through the group support approach. those who feel unsure of themselves perhaps have the most to gain by posting to the group.

so post on!! just my $0.02

-alex

 

[Lt. Bob]

Good thread!

Look.....we all have different priorities in life. For me.....it's all about the playing and the mix is less important to me. Sorry.....I know that to some this amounts to sacrilege but I've had a home studio since 1969 and I watched trends in mixing come and go and change like they do in any artform. What was considered 'brilliant' use of FX in the 60's or 70's is considered dated and silly today. But to me, those albums that I love from that era are still as great as ever. They just used a different artistic model. A good example is panning techniques. I've been critisized several times because the standard model today is to use everything in stereo...especially piano but really everything and I personally don't like it. I still prefer to position things around the soundstage...a guitar there and a piano there and the strings right....there! Now, I don't mind at all when someone says they don't care for how I have something panned because like everyone else....I learn from every critique. but does that mean that I have to agree? I don't think so.

And , for me, ultimately the reason I post stuff here is to share my music with my friends. I'm more of a musician than a recordist and I'm not looking for someone to 'fix' my mix as much as I am in simply sharing; and while I do read the responses and I do make changes in my mixes based on some of the responses....my primary purpose is to interact with other players.
I realize that's not everyones' reason but it's mine. Does that mean I can't come here anymore? I sure hope not.

And one more thing........I truly believe the bar has , in fact, been raised a good deal in the year or so I've been coming around. When I first got here, I heard a LOT of pure crap. I mean just horrible playing and recording. But now, I hear a lot of very nice stuff. The quality has definitely gone up as far as I'm concerned. And if you don't think so, just pop the Homerec Comp CD in your stereo and listen to that stuff from a few years ago. Much of it does not equal the mixes we're hearing now.
And one of the reasons it has gone up is people like Mix who share their expertise with newcomers and help them to get better. We need him and folks like him but we can't all be like him.

I don't often gush, I don't think. I'll have to watch my posts and see but I don't think I do. However, I like a wide variety of mixes and sounds so I'm easily pleased. If you want to know the weakest area of mixes here for me....it's the playing. Plenty of folks here aren't professional players and it shows. But should I tell them they suck? I don't think so. If they suck, it's because they're beginners or they just have limited ability. What's the point of critisizing that? Time will take care of it. So for me, I like to hear what people are doing and comment on the things I like and the things I don't and that's enough for me. I do not think anyone that goes deeper is an asshole but I don't think I should be made to feel like I'm an asshole because I don't want to be a Simon Crowell. I simply like to interact with other players and do the collabs that I enjoy so much. I'm really not about negative stuff 'cause in 30 years I'll be dead as shit and I personally don't like to be very negative.

If that makes me unsuitable for the clinic just let me know.

 

[SLuiCe]

And since you started this thread, mix, I too will add that you used to provide some very in-depth observations. Without those details, I fear you're being misunderstood. You were one of a handful of people I trusted for information when I roamed in here off the street with not much more than a SM58, a guitar and a Soundblaster 16 bit mono sound card going "What's mid-range?"

Your help does not go un-noticed. Dig up some of my old threads for the evidence. I've read some of your critiques of others, after I'd been doing this a while, and all I could say was something like "I've nothing to add. Mixmkr has just given you your money's worth." Something to that effect.

Things are changing around here for sure.

I'd like to see people spending more time asking questions...

How did you achieve that bass sound? Did you EQ it? What are some good starter settings?

Did you use condensors or dynamic mics on that amp? Did you EQ them at all?

...And less statements like I don't like the guitar sound and more like Is that the guitar sound you were going for? I bet it would sound cool if it had some more low end.


Or whatever. You get the point. General opinions are fine, but there are other websites for that- "Gods of Music" etc.

Let's not be greedy with information. Some of us do everything ourselves. We benefit a LOT especially from people whose main instrument is one we do not know as intimately.

I have benefitted immeasurably from people here who love music enough to want you to make better music.

 

[fenderlikingood]

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47833&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

Sup fella's, haven't been around much, this is the first thread i read upon return. ummmmmmm i know for a fact, i am lumped into the group of poster's that reply with the word's "awesome" and so forth in my response's. Iv'e made my feeling's known before, so i won't rehash, but you could also find some critical responses from me aswell( although few and far between). The main i reason i do this, is because i know nothing, and usually the "good " ear's have already got the song ahead of me, no reason to be redundant, ya know?? Mix, you feel you will be labled an asshole if all the responses are positive one's, and your's is a productive criticism?????????? WHY???????!!
i don't understand that, DO YOUR THING!! WHO THE FUCK CARE'S!! More people are looking for your kind of feedback as opposed to mine, You have it backward's.

The link above is the first thread i ever posted to in the CLINIC.
That thread is "awesome", the productive criticism posts out number the "compliment" post's by a huge margin. You even quoted my "compliment" post, and made what i thought to be a positive remark about it. WHAT HAS CHANGED??? Now you feel these remark's have no merit??? In a technical sense maybe not.
I do what i can, and i really enjoy this place.

However, i feel i have overstayed my welcome. I'll just go back to casual observer and reader, i shall continue my education without the "gushing " remark's. they don't mean shit any fucking way. If this post make's me come off like an asshole.....
......TO EACH HIS OWN, isn't that what it's all about anyway??

Rick

 

[Slackmaster2K]

I think some people might need to take a break from the clinic. Honestly I can't listen to more than a few tunes in here at once, and can't do that very often. I try to check every now and then so I don't miss anybody on my imaginary "buddy" list, except for sam because he comes out with new recordings every 9 seconds. Three just while I was writing this! Sam, don't think I don't listen to your stuff, because I do hit your nowhere site every so often and listen to everything I haven't heard.

I'm not sure I agree with some of the attitudes about participation levels around here...it almost seems to be a popularity game. If you're listening to so much stuff in here that you start to "burn out", then for cryin out loud, just take a break already! I know what it's like to burn out and get cranky in some of the other forums, but we should try to not let it happen around here.

I see this thread and the many words attached to it as a sign that for some people this forum has become a chore. If that's the case for you, then GO TO BED ALREADY.

I also don't like the generalizations in this thread. There's a lot of "we" talk. When I hear somebody in this forum use the "we" word, I know exactly which group of people he or she is referring to. Don't forget that there are bunches of new people posting on here every week! This isn't like the old days when the BBS was brand new and there really were just a few of "us". To say now that "our" recordings are getting better, for instance, just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think the clinic as a whole has a particular "level" or even an average!

Slackmaster 2000

 

[B.SABBATH]

I had to reply to this thread again..



fenderlikingood - that's a crock! Your attendance in the clinic is mandatory! You help add life to the board.. If you miss someones tune, I've seen you go back and dig it up just to let people know you listened.. No one else really does that.. Your song and mix's tune were the ones I was doing for the challenge.. No one leaves!




seriously, I don't think this thread went as well as mix' had planned, and I definitely know it was not his intention to drive anyone away..


be cool fender!


you too mix!

 

[Guernica]

What he said!
Rick, you and your comments keep people here. You have a colorful way of letting someone know that you dug their tune ....and that kind of enthusiasm keeps people excited about what they do. ....worth a million bucks!!!
Both kinds of criticism are necessary!










btw: Mix, I'll bet your laughing your ass off over the kind of tree this thread has turned into......

 

[Kramer]

btw: Mix, I'll bet your laughing your ass off over the kind of tree this thread has turned into......

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!LMAO!

Rick!You aint going nowhere damn it! If you leave,I will too.

 

[chrisharris]

TO EACH HIS OWN, isn't that what it's all about anyway??

Yes, it is Rick...whether it be constructive criticism, destructive criticism, or pure compliment. Don't forget that for a minute.

And if it had been Blue Bear that had responded to my first post here instead of you, I probably wouldn't have stuck around...SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD BE BANNED FOR THAT!!! lol. You leaving the clinic is like Kramer leaving the Cave...the universe just gets out of balance.

 

[Kramer]

You leaving the clinic is like Kramer leaving the Cave...the universe just gets out of balance.

LMAO@Chris!.....and I aint going back either!Monty and Hixmix are now King & Queen of that joint.

 

[M.Brane]

The more the better!

I don't put my stuff up here to have it gushed upon, but if you want to gush I won't stop you.

I'm not going to take it personal if you think it sucks either.

I'm looking for as many honest opinions as possible so I can see if there is a pattern to what people do/don't like about my mix. That's how you figure out what works, and where you need improvement.

While I don't have the greatest set of ears or monitors I try to do the same for others. I just try to listen objectively and give my honest opinion. Do with it what you will.

Since I have a pretty fast DSL line I feel a little obligated to listen to as much stuff as possible, but if I really don't feel like it I don't. Like mixing you have to know when to put it down for a while.

I guess the bottom line is all opinions are valued. Wether or not they're taken into consideration is up to the mixer.

My $.02