ok...I am going to try and
- Thread starter mixmkr
- Start date
SLuiCe said:Actually, I don't think sobriety is really a requirement here
LOL SLuiCe!
I sure hope that's not the case. If it is I'm not the only one breaking the rules!
BTW here's areal simple way to take care of this issue: simply do not read the replies until after you post.
Last edited:
Toki987
Rock Steady
Thonk! thonk! is this mic on? testwing wwun too tree, wun too tree......."feewings...., nuttin mordan feewiiiiiiiiiiiiingggs...."
I appreciate your comments Mixmxr, and am quite confident there are many others that do also, that may not post a response. The same as with posting comments to some of the tunes in the clinic. A lot of folks are learning by reference. They hear one thing and then compare it with something else that may be along the lines of what they are searching for, or that which they are more familiar with. At times it may not be so subjective when they post due to their personal preferences. That is bound to happen in any type of evaluation of an object by a population. Those that like blues may lend a most subjective ear and post their honest appraisal, and at the same time post something personal that also reflects their endearment to that particular genre, which is also sincere.
One must learn to be able to evaluate a critique given by another as being either objective and dealing with the science of the craft, being subjective because they like it for personal reasons, or they are merely being cordial, some may post something extremely positive to avoid appearing confrontational.
Personally, I like them to be objective and deal with the science of the craft from an honest perspective. If it be positive, reflect it in a manner that will be understood by the poster. If it be critical, point out that which is the issue, and offer some sort of possible choice of action that may help them alter it. There are always cases where just simply "more listening, more practice, and more time" would be the only advice to offer some. But this can always be done in a professional and (nice) manner, with encouragement.
I would hate to think I had been extrememly hard one someone`s presentation (it is an extension of the person) and it turn out to be some 14 yr old that pondered their continuance in something they desire in the heart, based on what I had said.
Im with Lt Bob in his reply, "sharing" but adding to that,.. "learning". Like in a large lab
and everyone is respected in the craft whatever their level of expertise may be. What I post is usually a result of a feeling or idea I had, but being presented with information and craftsmanship I have aquired from interacting, listening, reading critiques, replies, kudos, and pats on the back that many receive here. Granted there are a few more accomplished craftsmen ears that I highly respect here and can usually decipher or divine their meaning by the manner or content of their posts...(let the reader understand) I also try to post in a manner that is sincere, and make the message evident.
However I am open to all opinions, criticisms, kudos, or....just plain.. "I dont like the way you did that or the way it sounds". I sift thru it and find the information I need to raise my bar, work harder, and come back later with something else.
I firmly believe the old adage "a cruel truth is better that a comfortable delusion." however it does not have to be cruel, nor should it be dripping honey if there is an issue that may need adressing before they run off thinking that its "just right". As you reflected earlier, there is no growth or profit in that.
Kudos to you for stepping out with that post Mixmxr..
And yes, I'll pay a lil extra for hoggin the mic.... next?!!!
I appreciate your comments Mixmxr, and am quite confident there are many others that do also, that may not post a response. The same as with posting comments to some of the tunes in the clinic. A lot of folks are learning by reference. They hear one thing and then compare it with something else that may be along the lines of what they are searching for, or that which they are more familiar with. At times it may not be so subjective when they post due to their personal preferences. That is bound to happen in any type of evaluation of an object by a population. Those that like blues may lend a most subjective ear and post their honest appraisal, and at the same time post something personal that also reflects their endearment to that particular genre, which is also sincere.
One must learn to be able to evaluate a critique given by another as being either objective and dealing with the science of the craft, being subjective because they like it for personal reasons, or they are merely being cordial, some may post something extremely positive to avoid appearing confrontational.
Personally, I like them to be objective and deal with the science of the craft from an honest perspective. If it be positive, reflect it in a manner that will be understood by the poster. If it be critical, point out that which is the issue, and offer some sort of possible choice of action that may help them alter it. There are always cases where just simply "more listening, more practice, and more time" would be the only advice to offer some. But this can always be done in a professional and (nice) manner, with encouragement.
I would hate to think I had been extrememly hard one someone`s presentation (it is an extension of the person) and it turn out to be some 14 yr old that pondered their continuance in something they desire in the heart, based on what I had said.
Im with Lt Bob in his reply, "sharing" but adding to that,.. "learning". Like in a large lab
and everyone is respected in the craft whatever their level of expertise may be. What I post is usually a result of a feeling or idea I had, but being presented with information and craftsmanship I have aquired from interacting, listening, reading critiques, replies, kudos, and pats on the back that many receive here. Granted there are a few more accomplished craftsmen ears that I highly respect here and can usually decipher or divine their meaning by the manner or content of their posts...(let the reader understand)
I also try to post in a manner that is sincere, and make the message evident.However I am open to all opinions, criticisms, kudos, or....just plain.. "I dont like the way you did that or the way it sounds". I sift thru it and find the information I need to raise my bar, work harder, and come back later with something else.
I firmly believe the old adage "a cruel truth is better that a comfortable delusion." however it does not have to be cruel, nor should it be dripping honey if there is an issue that may need adressing before they run off thinking that its "just right". As you reflected earlier, there is no growth or profit in that.
Kudos to you for stepping out with that post Mixmxr..
And yes, I'll pay a lil extra for hoggin the mic....
next?!!!
W.I.S.C.
10lbs.of sh*t in 5lb.BAG
Duh!I'm stupideder
This thread is a useless piece of shit.Say what you want to say about what you hear and then do one or more of the following:
1.Offer praise
2.Offer critsism
3.Offer suggestions/tips
4.Shut up
5.Get bent
Mix,I hope your pleased with yourself.I feel like an irreplacable part of my life has been sucked away cuz you wanted some attention.I read thru this whole bloody thread only to find it go...nowhere.It was funny at times,but that stuff belongs in the cave.You've taken valuable music time up and now here I am wasting more of it.Stop it!Let 'em gush.Let 'em make idiotic ramblings about how 'awsome' it was.Let 'em be douchebags and assholes and add color to your Black and White world.I like reading eveyones comments,even if they are a gush.I like when people are nice,even when it ain't necessary.Random acts of kindness and all that Shit...I'm gonna shut up now.
This thread is a useless piece of shit.Say what you want to say about what you hear and then do one or more of the following:
1.Offer praise
2.Offer critsism
3.Offer suggestions/tips
4.Shut up
5.Get bent
Mix,I hope your pleased with yourself.I feel like an irreplacable part of my life has been sucked away cuz you wanted some attention.I read thru this whole bloody thread only to find it go...nowhere.It was funny at times,but that stuff belongs in the cave.You've taken valuable music time up and now here I am wasting more of it.Stop it!Let 'em gush.Let 'em make idiotic ramblings about how 'awsome' it was.Let 'em be douchebags and assholes and add color to your Black and White world.I like reading eveyones comments,even if they are a gush.I like when people are nice,even when it ain't necessary.Random acts of kindness and all that Shit...I'm gonna shut up now.
fenderlikingood
New member
mixmkr said:make sure I phrase and state this carefully.
It seems to me that there ARE many very talanted people here, and the mixes and songs are good proof of that. However, it seems that either the posted song needs either (1) a fair amount of work, fix timing issues, tune the gtrs, ditch the Casio drum machine.. OR (2)the song is just 5 stars fantastic. There seems to be no middle ground. I can appreciate the quality that some of the more gifted people are putting out, but many of the threads become a gushfest it seems.
Am I being an asshole to mention this...or ? On a couple of threads, I feel I had some comments to offer as constructive ideas, but instead did not respond because the previous 20 posters just said it was fantastic.. "Don't change a thing" is a typical response. I feel my post would have just made me a dickhead...(probably like this post is doing), and it is starting to make me 2nd guess my own ears, (to some extent). I've even had my shit jumped a couple times because of this (I know), but it seems changing my way of responding might be for the best...less traffic against the flow. However honestly, I feel that just "sugar coating" a response is potentially nice to read, but really does the writer no good...and maybe actually does more harm than good, by making the writer think they are the next "Jimi Hendrix" (which I know we all don't think we are...but you get the idea).
I fear giving specific examples, but they're a half dozen or so now floating around that I feel fit into this catagory. I've noticed that some people don't acknowledge my replies now either...
oh well...
one last thing...I realize there may be many people who will respond to this and say; " I could never be THAT good...or I DO think the song is awesome"...but is it REALLY awesome?
and...one more last thing. This place basically comprimises 90% of my music listening nowadays... and when I hear something MUSICALLY challenging somewhere else, I DO notice a difference between that and the stuff in the clinic. If anyone listens to NPR, and the jazz show with Maryann McPartle (sp?), her show (Piano talk) its almost ALWAYS awesome. The same with the Saturday show "Front Porch" with some of the most kick ass playing you've ever heard...from reletive nobodies to Leo Kotkee's. If Leo Kotkee (again..spelling?) posted in here, I think we would all faint. but then, maybe not... And yes..I realize this is the mp3 mixing clinic and NOT the mp3 playing clinic.
thanks ..especially if you've read this far... no flames intended PLEASE
OK........I was able to kiss my loving wife ,and pet my dog's, eat some dinner. I'm feeling better now. Damn i hate to whine, it's just not my style, but Mr. depression has paid me a visit.
I know MIX wasn't personally attacking anyone, but he is expressing his "opinion" as to why he is not posting as critical as he once did. And i just happen to fall into that category, there was a soap box nearby, so i jumped on. he speak's of Leo Kotkee "if he posted in here we would all faint, but then maybe not" EXACTLY! !!!! The "maybe , maybe not" is the telling part.
I'm just puzzled as to how you could write that, and still hold on to the rest of your post. to YOU, Leo Kotkee is "musically challenging", to me it's unattainable at the moment. maybe B.SABBATH, SLUICE, GUERNICA, CHRIS HARRIS, KRAMER, PARTICIPANT, TOKI, LT. BOB,M.BRANE, JAMES HE, SLACK, DOBRO,TRIPLE M, DTB, are my Leo Kotkees!!!!!(just some quick names off the top of my head fella's, the list goes on) right now i am at a skill level that leaves their music unattainable for me, and i don't have the talent to critique their music. when's the last time you heard sam posting something that was clipping like a moe foe, or his git's weren't tuned???? well, those are about the only thing's i would be able to pick out of a mix with confidence( and it would have to be bad) THIS IS MY NPR!!!! don't let my "GUSHING" stop YOU from being critical, maybe i just don't get it?? I could be way off with interperating your post??
say it loud and proud, mix..... "I AM NOT A DICKHEAD FOR BEING CRITICAL"!!!!!!!! quite the opposite. You just wait 'till i have a grasp on sonic's!! I'll be helping out left and right!!
see....even i have an opinion.
chris, you are correct sir, thank's for reminding of my own quote. Sam and Guernica, you are rock star's(in my eye's) and even if i did stop posting in here, i wouldn't miss sam remaking my tune for all the perfect recording's in the world!!!!!! Kramer you ain't goin anywhere!!! and why aren't you posting in the cave!! wtf??
im not drunk ,sluice, but i have sobered up, so to speak(nice call)
uh oh , i'm gushing........i'm gonna stop now
wow, just felt like getting it out there tonight!! feel's good! real good!alexspetty
New member
cant we all just get along?
crawdad
Dammit, Jim, Shut Up!
I did a version of this thread a while ago. I asked a question: what should we say and what shouldn't we say. I got a lot of really sane responses. It basically boiled down to say what you think and, as for the posters of tunes, ask specific questions if you have a specific thing you want people to comment on. Maybe I can dig that thread up and give you all a link.
Meanwhile, the clinic for me is about several purposes. First, to offer help and opinions to those who ask. There is almost always something good--even in really rough tunes. If I hear something wrong, I also hear something right and something good. Even though I am a relatively old fart, I remember all too clear when I was starting out and how shitty some of my efforts were. My purpose is to help people grow and be better. Why? Because I want to see better music in the world, ideally. So, I seek a balance. For me, to say--this song sucks is just suppressive BS. If you're not here to help, get the fuck out of here because nobody needs total negativity. Beginners, especially, need encouragement and a helping hand--not to be totally shut down. There are two things--the muse and the execution of the idea. Figure out what you can say that will really help a person, or get a job with a major label so you can turn down everybody.
Second, this is a place I like to get feedback on my songs and my engineering. It helps me tremendously to get an overall picture of my work. I like the comments like "the guitar is harsh" or "the piano sux" or 'there's too much reverb on the snare" etc. To be honest here, I DO love it when a particular song gets a great, even gushing reaction. Who doesn't? Yet, I don't EXPECT that reaction. I'm equally OK with criticism that acts like a heat seeking missile. I'm human. I miss things--too often!
Third, I like to hear what other people are doing, just to enjoy it. I am often very impressed with what turns up here. Some of it is not "my style" but I admire the work that people put in and I learn and expand my horizons. I could never write something like Sam, but he does some really amazing things, and I enjoy that. ChrisHarris started out here with these cool songs and odd recordings, but his engineering and mixing skills have shown tremendous improvement. Its great to see people grow and develop their art. I have heard songs here that are as good as my favorite songs by major artists too.
Bottom line: if you are an expert, be a teacher. If you are a beginner, just express what you feel or speak about what you know, I guess! The clinic is a process, not a final work. Lets all be a part of the process and help each other to reach our musical dreams, whatever they are. What this forum is NOT about is trying to prove to the world how smart, creative or talented I am. Its about sharing, helping and getting help in return. If we can help each other to become better writers, players, producers and engineers its good for everyone.
Meanwhile, the clinic for me is about several purposes. First, to offer help and opinions to those who ask. There is almost always something good--even in really rough tunes. If I hear something wrong, I also hear something right and something good. Even though I am a relatively old fart, I remember all too clear when I was starting out and how shitty some of my efforts were. My purpose is to help people grow and be better. Why? Because I want to see better music in the world, ideally. So, I seek a balance. For me, to say--this song sucks is just suppressive BS. If you're not here to help, get the fuck out of here because nobody needs total negativity. Beginners, especially, need encouragement and a helping hand--not to be totally shut down. There are two things--the muse and the execution of the idea. Figure out what you can say that will really help a person, or get a job with a major label so you can turn down everybody.
Second, this is a place I like to get feedback on my songs and my engineering. It helps me tremendously to get an overall picture of my work. I like the comments like "the guitar is harsh" or "the piano sux" or 'there's too much reverb on the snare" etc. To be honest here, I DO love it when a particular song gets a great, even gushing reaction. Who doesn't? Yet, I don't EXPECT that reaction. I'm equally OK with criticism that acts like a heat seeking missile. I'm human. I miss things--too often!
Third, I like to hear what other people are doing, just to enjoy it. I am often very impressed with what turns up here. Some of it is not "my style" but I admire the work that people put in and I learn and expand my horizons. I could never write something like Sam, but he does some really amazing things, and I enjoy that. ChrisHarris started out here with these cool songs and odd recordings, but his engineering and mixing skills have shown tremendous improvement. Its great to see people grow and develop their art. I have heard songs here that are as good as my favorite songs by major artists too.
Bottom line: if you are an expert, be a teacher. If you are a beginner, just express what you feel or speak about what you know, I guess!
The clinic is a process, not a final work. Lets all be a part of the process and help each other to reach our musical dreams, whatever they are. What this forum is NOT about is trying to prove to the world how smart, creative or talented I am. Its about sharing, helping and getting help in return. If we can help each other to become better writers, players, producers and engineers its good for everyone.
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
mixmkr,
on one of my song posts, you responded with some points that needed to be addressed and you almost apologized for making them.....my response included these words
"mixmkr,
what i respect most about you is your honesty when reviewing songs.....i dont need anyone blowing smoke up my butt....i cant improve if noone points out the flaws.....i appreciate the post and will take it all in consideration......."
i meant that then and i hope you continue doing the same critiques you always have.....
just remember, some of our ears arent as trained or can pinpoint whats wrong....some songs are so good they deserve the "sounds great" post.....if ive done my best to find something wrong and couldnt Ive done all i can....if you listen and find something wrong and you DON'T post it, you are selling yourself and that person short.......
MIKE
on one of my song posts, you responded with some points that needed to be addressed and you almost apologized for making them.....my response included these words
"mixmkr,
what i respect most about you is your honesty when reviewing songs.....i dont need anyone blowing smoke up my butt....i cant improve if noone points out the flaws.....i appreciate the post and will take it all in consideration......."
i meant that then and i hope you continue doing the same critiques you always have.....
just remember, some of our ears arent as trained or can pinpoint whats wrong....some songs are so good they deserve the "sounds great" post.....if ive done my best to find something wrong and couldnt Ive done all i can....if you listen and find something wrong and you DON'T post it, you are selling yourself and that person short.......
MIKE
I know what you mean about being too polite etc. mixmkr. It's hard to avoid changing the attitude towards some people because you've come buddies with them here. I've always tried to be critical and find something to nitpick. Sometimes I just listen and can't find anything to complain about. It may be because I'm not in the right mood to listen to the MIX, but the song itself. I've also tried to point out that when commenting on certain things with mix or song arrangements, I try to remind you people what I know about them and what my personal preferences are. For example, when nitpicking about drums or something, I've tried to emphasize the fact that I'm almost never satisfied with drum sounds. I always find something wrong with them eventually. Maybe I'm besides the real point here now. I do remember being more blunt in the past, so maybe I should try to be like that more (but only if necessary). I don't mind criticism if there is some kind of explanation behind it. Of course, that should go for the positive criticism too (or at least in my opinion), but it's often forgotten. Time will tell if this thread was an "eye-opener" or an "eve of war" Be cool you people ... now let's get on with the normal schedule, ok?
-EDIT-
I'd just like to point out that negative criticism really has helped me too. I remember way back when I posted my cover of Judas Priest's "Tyrant". There was some praising and stuff, but somebody mentioned about the kick drum sounding like a typewriter. I hadn't even noticed it that way, but when I listened it more critically, I really noticed it. Sometimes you need other people to help you find the obvious. (of course, it's all a matter of opinion, but still)
Be cool you people ... now let's get on with the normal schedule, ok? -EDIT-
I'd just like to point out that negative criticism really has helped me too. I remember way back when I posted my cover of Judas Priest's "Tyrant". There was some praising and stuff, but somebody mentioned about the kick drum sounding like a typewriter. I hadn't even noticed it that way, but when I listened it more critically, I really noticed it. Sometimes you need other people to help you find the obvious. (of course, it's all a matter of opinion, but still)
WATYF
...happier than you.
LOL..B.SABBATH said:Kinda like what you do with Erland..
Hey man... I have no problem admitting that Erland is my one "guilty pleasure".
I rarely ever say anything "critiquing" aboot his stuff, but that's just cause he has so much raw talent, that I guess I just don't think it's necessary... I dunno... maybe it's not fair to him.. maybe I should be "tough" with him just like with everyone else. I understand what you're saying too, and I don't really disagree,... but you gotta admit... your stuff has come a long way, and it is possible that it might not have gotten to the place it is now, if all you ever heard was, "that was awesome."
But I just wanted to say... I agree with both sides here. (and it's very rare that I'm this agreeable).
I agree with mix... I think this place has gotten less and less about critiquing mixes, and more and more about telling someone when you think a song is awesome. I have personally experienced how much harder it is to offer critical observations on a song when 20 posts have already said that the song is awesome.
I also agree with DavidK... it's stupid to try and tell people how to post here in the clinic. (and no, I don't believe that's what mix was trying to do in this thread) There's no way that we could have any kind of "criteria" for posting here... not only would it be a logistical nightmare (seeing how there are new people showing up every day), but it just isn't fair to the different levels of recording ability and musical taste that roam around here.
My only suggestion is this...
We need to make it clear that in-depth critisicms are a vital part of the clinic, and that they won't be met with any kind of repercussions. If 20 people come along and say, "that song is awesome" and then 1 person comes along and says "that guitar really sounds crappy", then that one person should not have to worry about those 20 people replying with silly things like, "well,... I guess that's just your opinion, cause I thought it was great." If it's clear, through example, that both positive and negative critiques are received in the same manner, then I don't think anyone will hessitate to post either.
I think if we just make it clear that scrutinizing critiques are just as welcome as glowing praise, then this won't even be an issue anymore. That's not to say that anyone has come along as said that harsh critiques are "stupid" or anything... I just think that it's kind of "drifted" in that direction over time... so I just wanted to suggest that we make it clear that those types of posts are encouraged... (because some people might not be aware of that, or they may have forgotten that.)
For now, I think that if we just get back to the bidness of making music, this issue will dissipate without any further incident.
WATYF
Kramer
Well-known member
WATYF said:
I havent even noticed a slow down in posting even though these 2 threads have been pretty active.I dont think mixmkr's post was some kind of plea for rule changes.I dont think there are any rules here to start with.LOL......nothing has changed.Some people voiced their opinions and the show has still went on without a hitch.
B.SABBATH
New member
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