OH patterns

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aoki saburo

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Which OH setup for drums is your favourite for (generally speaking) what kind of music?

for example, I've found the recorderman method really useful for balanced toms and an overall, lively, "big" drum sound. Takes panning really well, too.

X/Y is a huge pain in the butt but is really focused and really usefull for tight drum sounds - really dense mixes...

Spaced pair... I have a friend who goes to a private engineering college. And he's told me that this is the worst OH setup, lots of phasing problems etc which i've never heard.... this is my favourite, provides an instant natural drum sound that works really well for me.

But I guess i'm interested in making connections between OH setups and musical styles. That's the point of this post.

You guys have any go-to setups, according to genre maybe?

thanks in advance
saburo
 
aoki saburo said:
Spaced pair... I have a friend who goes to a private engineering college. And he's told me that this is the worst OH setup, lots of phasing problems etc which i've never heard....
Click to expand...

That's probably a comment based on live use, where mono summing is frequent. If you use spaced pair hard panned, you probably won't have issues.

As always, if it sounds good, it is good :)
 
I just put em where I get the best balance of cymbals in stereo with kick and snare centered. I do all kinds of stuff, XY and spaced and slightly angled pair. Haha, I just do it by ear. not sure what's best but I am usually working with a tiny room and trying to get the drums wider and a bit roomier. Right now they are over my head about three feet above my shoulders pointing outward at the cymbal/tom spread.
 
If the room is nice, omnis rock, if not I tend to use spaced pair depending on the skill of the drummer. Inconsistant or excitable attack can really screw up ohs. If the drummer flails and wails I tend to back off a bit and use xy.
 
balanced player...

the guy i had in mind is a really technically good drummer, hits his drums hard and his kit always sounds tight and balanced. So it seems like spaced pair might be a nice way to go.

I see how it's hard to go wrong with X/Y though, thanks for clearing that up kenny.

saburo
 
dpa

wow dan, that was a great link.

thanks a bunch
saburo
 
I like a hyper-cardioid overhead aimed at the snare but angled slightly forward to catch some cymbals, an LDC off to the floor tom side over the ride cymbal, aimed across the kit, and usually something out front and center, with dynamic mics on kick and snare bottom. No hat mic, it gets into everything else, anyway. With some light compression I find it to be a great setup for Beatles-influenced indie rock or drummers with a lighter touch.

For metal, everything is close-miked and only the kick and snare compressed and gated all to hell,OH left and OH right pretty tight on the cymbals, with a lot of subtractive EQ and no compression. Ambient miking sounds like ass for metal drums in my room.
 
bad rooms

i know that you're just supposed to lower your mikes if your room sucks, but drummers tend to hit my mikes.

My solution is blankets hung up on 3 sides, about 4 feet out on each side and 2 feet behind the drummer, then i very, very carefully add reverb to everything in the mix....

My initial sound is bone-dry, which freaks out the drummers who want their drums to sound like cannons firing but... what can ya do

I like the ldc over on the floor tom side, where do you point that exactly? how high off the tom would you say it is? don't the drummers whip it on their way to the crash, or on rolls?

saburo
 
aoki saburo said:
Which OH setup for drums is your favourite for (generally speaking) what kind of music?

for example, I've found the recorderman method really useful for balanced toms and an overall, lively, "big" drum sound. Takes panning really well, too.

X/Y is a huge pain in the butt but is really focused and really usefull for tight drum sounds - really dense mixes...

Spaced pair... I have a friend who goes to a private engineering college. And he's told me that this is the worst OH setup, lots of phasing problems etc which i've never heard.... this is my favourite, provides an instant natural drum sound that works really well for me.

But I guess i'm interested in making connections between OH setups and musical styles. That's the point of this post.

You guys have any go-to setups, according to genre maybe?

thanks in advance
saburo
Click to expand...

does your friend happen to go to five towns? i've learned the same exact thing. too much phase. although i am yet to put this bit of info to the test personally.
 
I'd say it depends on the track in question, but i often prefer a spaced pair. i try to get them equidistant to the snare so that it's nicely centered. it gives a very nice natural "wide" sound. There are phase issues but flipping the phase quickly reveals how drastic these are, which as long as the OH's are panned often is not such a big deal.
 
I try to keep them equidistant from the snare and kick at the same time, parallel to each other. I'd love to try MS as well...Omnis in the room work as well.

jacob
 
thexflamesxburn said:
does your friend happen to go to five towns? i've learned the same exact thing. too much phase. although i am yet to put this bit of info to the test personally.
Click to expand...

actually my friend goes to a very, very small school (3 students) near vancouver.

I'd love to try M/S too, but fig. 8 mikes are hard for me to come by... love to try a ribbon, though.

Anybody mic from behind the drummers head? maybe an x/y a foot or so above his head? pointing at the stem of the toms, maybe? 'course, the panning would have to be reversed...

saburo
 
why xy

i've always used xy above the drummer's head, but i'm ready to try some other stuff. has anyone tried in front of the kit? for instance, using some coincident pair or other stereo mic technique six feet or so out?

i don't mean to wax philosophical, but i've always questioned whether the intended audience would want to listen to a kit from above . . . i mean we all talk about getting a proper kit balance in the overheads (not just cymbals), but, for maximum realism, wouldn't mics in front of the kit somewhere be better than hovering in the air, assuming we'd be forced to choose due to not having the resources to do both at the same time?

anyone try this? would this present fewer issues with phase coherence with the close mics (or more?)? too much kick?
 
aoki saburo said:
Anybody mic from behind the drummers head? maybe an x/y a foot or so above his head? pointing at the stem of the toms, maybe? 'course, the panning would have to be reversed...

saburo
Click to expand...

That's how I do it. I just like having the mics closer to my ears while I'm drumming, because then I hear something at least similar to what the mics are hearing, or at least moreso than I would with a spaced pair or with x/y on the other side of the kit.

$0.02
 
I think i'll try X/Y above the head, too... seems natural to me somehow.

yeah, and I think you might get waaaay too much kick (and maybe not much definition) with the mics in front of the kick? Have to be a reeeeaaaall good room too.

You know, I'm kind of losing sight of what a good room sounds like. It's been that long since I've been in one.... Should have taken better notes.

saburo
 
aoki saburo said:
Have to be a reeeeaaaall good room too.
Click to expand...

Real good point...the room is a part of the signal chain, and half the discussion about where to put overheads really hinge on this! If you put the mics on the kit poorly in a bad room you'll get a lot of coincedental crap that you won't want! A room can really help you decide whether to close mic or room mic your drums and cymbals!

Jacob
 
jbratch said:
i've always used xy above the drummer's head, but i'm ready to try some other stuff. has anyone tried in front of the kit? for instance, using some coincident pair or other stereo mic technique six feet or so out?

i don't mean to wax philosophical, but i've always questioned whether the intended audience would want to listen to a kit from above . . . i mean we all talk about getting a proper kit balance in the overheads (not just cymbals), but, for maximum realism, wouldn't mics in front of the kit somewhere be better than hovering in the air, assuming we'd be forced to choose due to not having the resources to do both at the same time?

anyone try this? would this present fewer issues with phase coherence with the close mics (or more?)? too much kick?
Click to expand...

This is an interesting question, actually, in terms of perception of depth of field and stereo placement. For instance, the guy I learned from took perverse pleasure in mixing drums from the drummer's perspective, rather than placing things in the field as if the listener was standing in front of the drums.

But, yeah, I don't particularly like the way the tops of cymbals sound, and I tend to mix them a little behind the kick, anyway, so I prefer trying to get cymbals from in front of the kit rather than above...My overhead mic is really trying to get mostly snare...enough of the stick-on-cymbal sound generally leaks into that mic (usually a beyer M160).

It is really just a variation of Fletcher's 3 mic technique, though I use 5, sometimes 6....one over the snare, one out front at about drummer's eye level, one on the floortom side high enough to get some ride cymbal and the "inside" of the kit, an LDC out front down low, and a 57 on snare bottom. If the drummer doesn't use a front head (it seems most do these days) then I'll close-mic the beater.
 
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