noisy home studio problem

[smcbutler]

hi all,

i get a lot of noise in my home studio that i'm working on trying to reduce but what would really help would be a very directional microphone for vocals that i can place in the "quietest" part of the room. someone was telling me the Rode NTK would be a good candidate for this and someone else mentioned the Shure KSM27, anyone have any opinions on these? i can maybe stetch to $500 for the right mic so if anyone has other mic recommendations i would be most appreciative!!

we have used the SM58 upto now but i borrowed a friends CAD e100 and realised what we were missing.. i have a feeling that we can do better than the e100 though.

would a hyper or super cardioid mic be a better choice than a regular cardiod? are there of these out there that give a nice vocal sound?

the vocalist i work with has a somewhat quiet and pure vocal quality and we trying for a somewhat intimate sound.

i read the great thread from Harvey Gerst but wasn't able to determine the right mic for my somewhat compromised recording circumstances.

thx in advance, -simon-

 

[Michael Jones]

I see this is your first post. Welcome aboard!
Unfortunately, there's no easy answer to your question. A uni-directional microphone, may not be the best solution to your problem. I for one, if given a problem such as yours, would opt to deal with the problem at the source, and try to remedy that rather than look for a mic that might tend to comprimise your vocalist.
By that I mean, I'd work on the room, rather than the mic.
Do you have a closet that could be used as a vocal isolation booth? What is the source of the noise? Could you record vocals at a later time, like late, late night, or early morning before the noise got...going?
If however you do find yourself in need for a condensor mic for vocals, you could do worse than the NTK, I suppose.
The Shure SM7, while a dynamic mic and not a condensor, can make vocals really shine. Some of the moderately priced mics like the Studio Projects C-1 or C-3, or the MXL V63 may also prove adequate for your needs. Keep a keen eye out at your local pawn shops too. I picked up a BLUE mouse for $699 at one near me.
Those are some of the mics that I have, and come to mind in that price range.
I'm sure others will chime in with their vocal mic recommendations as well.

 

[chessparov]

Most of the rooms in my house have the same problem.
Close miking helps a lot-typically I use one of the following microphones;

1) Shure Beta 87 condenser (tightest pattern of their stage mikes)
2) Shure Beta 57 (better detail than SM58)
3) Sennheiser 421 MKII (great for many uses besides just vocals)

Only the master bedroom closet is "worthy" of the C1.

You may also want to check into;
1) EV RE20 or PL20
2) Sennheiser 441 (used)
3) Beyer M88 or M88TG

They don't need as much "oomph" from a mic pre as a SM7.

Chris

 

[Sennheiser]

I am new here too.

I'll second the Sennheiser MD441U. You can find them used on e-bay from time to time. It's the best mic I've ever used.

 

[jeap]

scumbutler:

what is the noise you are talking about?

describe the room and the noise!!!

 

[smcbutler]

scumbutler:

what is the noise you are talking about?

describe the room and the noise!!!

hi all, thx for the response,

the main noise issue in my apartment is with cars on my street. i can turn off the fridge, computers etc but the cars... not much i can do there.

the SM57 i have used up to now has sufficient directional qualities that we haven't had a problem with the apartment noise. what i'd really like to find is a nicer mike but with the same directional qualities. any other recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

rgds, -simon-

 

[jeap]

aaaaah yes.

car noise. also intermittent construction and garbage truck noise.

where i live its lawnmowers! the funny thing is the noise i get doesnt seem to affect my recordings. i gate whatever little the mics pick up on the way in.

i also get dehumidifier washing machine and hvac noise but all at relatively low levels i guess.

the best thing to do i think would be to have heavy drapes over the windows that you can shut for recording.

you want a cardiod condenser to go with your 57. have the side you sing into facing away from the direction of the most noise. behind the microphone have a mic boom stand with a blanket and sing toward the blanket.

so you will be singing toward the noise into the mic and on the other side of the mic will be the hanging blankey! and the mic is far from the windows.

any decent vocal condenser will do.

 

[cominginsecond]

The pickup pattern of your mic is not going to matter when it comes to this problem. A hypercardiod will pick up car rumble just as much as an omni. If you can't somehow change the room to block out the noise, you might want consider singing closer to the mic or singing louder. The louder your voice/instruments are, the less you will have to turn up your preamp and the less the car noise will come through. Also, you will want to use a preamp or a mic that has a high-pass filter on it. If you use one of those, sounds like car rumble will be minimized.

 

[LeeL]

[Bi can maybe stetch to $500 for the right mic so if anyone has other mic recommendations i would be most appreciative!! [/B]

Simon, yes the right mic will help but be aware a Condenser mic will only cause you more problems. For example the C1 is very good mic but boy is it sensitive. You really need a good room for a mic like this. So I would suggest a dynamic mic if you are having noise problems.

But, the only real way to solve this problem is to block the outside noise. I would suggest you look at building a couple of baffles that you can setup when doing recording. These are not hard to build and you can get very good isolation without spending a lot of money.

I could give you an example of how to build a baffle or you can pick up a book or do a search on the net. But basically if you don't want to get fancy all you need is a couple of 1x4's, a piece of 1/4 particle board, a piece of dow-corning insulation or polyurethane form and a piece of burlap.

With a couple of these you can probably attenuate your outside noise by about 20db. Now if the noise is very low frequency (lot of rumble) then a lot of that sound is transmitted through the floor. These baffles are best for frequencies between 200 hz and 4000 hz.

There are a lot of variations on how to build these and of course there are expensive pre-made solutions. But I think you could spend a lot of time chasing your tail with mics and other techniques but in the long run acoustic isolation is the real answer.

 

[jeap]

condensers are sensitive but you should get one anyway!

a low cut filter will take care of rumble - also called high pass.

use a spider shockmount.

close miking and singing louder are good ideas to keep the preamp turned down a little.

if youre recording a wispy voice accompanied by a soft flute then noise is a problem. otherwise just do the best you can with what you have.

the more tracks you record with the mic then when you combine them youre combining the noise too so keep that in mind.

 

[StevenLindsey]

Let the scoffing begin!

If you don't have a Behringer SNR2000 Denoiser, you don't know what you're missing. Used with a little treble boost or an exciter, it will take care of a LOT of your problem. One of the best purchases I've ever made. Scoff - but then go try it.

 

[chessparov]

simon, the Shure SM57 is a good, solid recording microphone.
What kind of mic pre are you using?
A good quality pre will make a big difference in sound quality.

Chris

 

[cominginsecond]

Chessparov,

It seems like your response has little, if anything, to do with Simon's question. He doesn't even mention having an SM 57! He's talking about trying to minimize ambient noise. What does the preamp have to do with that, really?

 

[darrin_h2000]

Build a room, It may cost you more but its the only way to really tackle this. The studio building forum is a good place for ideas.

 

[jeap]

it always freaks me out when the old timers say the shure sm57 is a perfectly good studio vocal mic.

then they ask what kind of mic preamp you are using because this is very important to get the most out of your 57.

its as if they want you to spend one or two grand on a preamp to make an inexpensive dynamic stage mic sound good on studio vocals. good luck.

what is the ulterior motive here? do they want other ppls' recordings to sound dull compared to theirs? is it sabotage?


i like leel's idea of building baffles! you could even make them out of framed sheetrock if you wanted to. when not in use they could sit against a wall... you could face them with a foam mattress pad. i use convoluted foam mattress pads as a cheap alternative to studio foam.

... and cominginsecond of course is right!

 

[crazydoc]

it always freaks me out when the old timers say the shure sm57 is a perfectly good studio vocal mic.

its as if they want you to spend one or two grand on a preamp to make an inexpensive dynamic stage mic sound good on studio vocals. good luck.

what is the ulterior motive here? do they want other ppls' recordings to sound dull compared to theirs? is it sabotage?

Damn, you are a smart one, jeap. This was such a well guarded secret for years! You've only been posting here for two weeks - you just gotta be one fucking genius!
I don't know how you could have figured it out for yourself. I bet one of those old-timers ratted the others out. C'mon, tell us - who was it?

 

[Michael Jones]

it always freaks me out when the old timers say the shure sm57 is a perfectly good studio vocal mic...
...its as if they want you to spend one or two grand on a preamp to make an inexpensive dynamic stage mic sound good on studio vocals...

what is the ulterior motive here? do they want other ppls' recordings to sound dull compared to theirs? is it sabotage?

The very spirit of this board is to help each other out. No one here is contemplating sabotage.
The Shure SM57 microphone has long been a staple of every serious recorder- home or pro.
There are people here who know how to make the SM57 really shine, so naturally they recommend it - especially to beginners.
It's not the wand my friend -- It's the magician.

 

[darrin_h2000]

I think Robert Plant and Paul Rodgers would disagree with you.

 

[jeap]

they would disagree with who?

robert plant always was kind of a screamer. if your voice sounds like a screaming guitar amp then maybe the sm57 was made for you!

i have 2 sm57's and i think its silly to use them for studio vocals. i have tried them myself and they sound relatively dull and lifeless. lacking in detail. some people like vocals to sound dull. i will admit that i have heard many commercial releases with dull sounding vocals!


do you know that there are microphones that are actually designed to be used for studio vocals? the sm57 is not one of them!

 

[smcbutler]

simon, the Shure SM57 is a good, solid recording microphone.
What kind of mic pre are you using?
A good quality pre will make a big difference in sound quality.

Chris

hi all, thx for all the responses (passionate) responses. i have an Aphex 207 mic pre which i think like i haven't had it very long but its definately better than the pre's in the dbx channel strip i had for a week or so..

i've looked long and hard at building a room but i just don't have the space to be honest. i have had such good results with the sm57 interms of rejecting ambient noise but it lacks the detail i'm looking for. i was hoping for a condenser mic that was directional enough that i could point it at a quiet part of the room.. anyway, i'll look into the baffles you mention.

the reason i posted was that i bought a Rode NT1 and found that it was so sensitve i just couldn't use it. i like the sound but it just isn't going to work in my space, and of course they won't let me return it expensive mistake (anyone want to buy it by the way?).

rgds, -simon-