Noise Reduction type on some Porta models

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huck.finn

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I was wondering if anyone can land a hand here, i'm interested in knowing if the noise reduction on the following models is shared, meaning, wether or not it's absolutely the same, and on which of the mods can it be totally switched on all tracks:

1. 244

2. 246

3. 424 MKIII

4. 488 MKIII

5. 238 (dbx version)

sorry if it's a real geeky question, but i really need to know. Cheers!
 
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huck.finn said:
dbx full-time, no switching. I hot-rodded mine so I can switch dbx off on track 4 for SMPTE sync tracks.
 
Cheers Mike, i actually have the 244, and know that the dbx can't be switched off. I should've specified that my question regarding the 244 in comparison with all of the others would have to do a lot more with type of DBX used.

I don't have the other models though and am very interested in something that can be switched on and off.
 
All use dbx type II noise reduction:

244: dbx cannot be switched off.

246: dbx on / off.

424 MKIII: dbx on / off.

488 MKIII: dbx on / off.

238 (dbx version): dbx on / off, in groups of 4 (1-4 and 5-8).

*The first three, 244, 246, 424 MKIII, I am sure about but the last 2, 488 MKIII and 238 I need a confirmation from someone who actually handled these units. The 488 and 238, I had to research, find specs and picts and I am fairly sure they too have dbx on / off.
 
I couldn't believe how many Highs were eliminated using DBX on my Tascam 424 MK III. Good thing there is an on/off switch. Just got it 2 weeks ago and it makes the old tapes sound MUDDY. :confused:
 
Slowrider said:
I couldn't believe how many Highs were eliminated using DBX on my Tascam 424 MK III. Good thing there is an on/off switch. Just got it 2 weeks ago and it makes the old tapes sound MUDDY. :confused:
dbx doesnt really eat up your highs as much as using a machine which may have drifted out of calibration or is being used with a poorer tape formulation.

In general though, most cassette based Portastudios will have trouble at the high end of the spectrum because of the inherent short comings of using tape at slower speeds. Generally, the faster the tape travels across the heads, the easier it becomes to capture high frequencies faithfully and is why many Portastudio users graduate to open reel decks which run at much higher speeds and with wider track widths to capture more information.

Turning off the dbx will give you a bit more highs, true; but it will also give you a lot more tape hiss.

Good luck with your sound.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
dbx doesnt really eat up your highs as much as using a machine which may have drifted out of calibration or is being used with a poorer tape formulation.

In general though, most cassette based Portastudios will have trouble at the high end of the spectrum because of the inherent short comings of using tape at slower speeds. Generally, the faster the tape travels across the heads, the easier it becomes to capture high frequencies faithfully and is why many Portastudio users graduate to open reel decks which run at much higher speeds and with wider track widths to capture more information.

Turning off the dbx will give you a bit more highs, true; but it will also give you a lot more tape hiss.

Good luck with your sound.

Cheers! :)

Slowrider. Generally agree with Ghost. Both dolby and dbx got (partly deservedly) a bad rap because manufacturers and marketers didnt want to give the downside to the equation. Or in short, you rarely get anything for nothing.

Analog NR requires the machine and tape combination be very well aligned, more critically than without NR. That's the big penalty.
But put it this way, if your machine sounds bad with NR switched in, it's out of calibration. But it's also out of calibration without the NR. It just doesnt sound as bad but it's still not right. Many home users, not knowing this decided NR was crap and soldiered on without it. Result: hissy or distorted (or both) recordings, which were less than what they could have been, even without NR. All that complex processing circuitry gone to waste.

Pro studios used NR from the mid 60's onwards, and to great effect. Almost indispensable with multitrack. But they had the money to pay to have their machines regularly and carefully calibrated.

Cassette recordings benefitted hugely from NR too but only if you had them set up right, like the pro studios did with their reel to reel machines.
Many people have probably never heard a good Portastudio, aligned to a good tape, using say Dolby C or dbx.
There should be no drop off in highs. None at all. Just much less background noise. Even a normal type tape with NR could sound far better than the best, most expensive metal tape available, with no NR.

With dbx if you listen carefully you might hear tape hiss "breathing" especially when something like bass guitar is playing out of silence.
But even with normal tape speed, so long as everything is lined up well with a good tape, the highs should be better with good NR than without, because that's what the NR is doing: working to fit the signal onto the tape far better than you could achieve without it.
There is an extra penalty of more potential for "dropout" which is just a side effect of all the expansion used on playback, so you needed to use good tapes in a well maintained machine or it could sound awful.
Also, NR encoded tapes can be, or become over time, undecodable even on a perfectly calibrated play deck. That is a specialised problem which can be dealt with using the right equipment and know how.

But dont trash NR, whatever brand or type. It was the mainstay of the pro studio world for decades.
I still use it in 2006 in a professional context. It works.
I also have live band recordings done years ago on multitrack cassette with normal tape and normal speed, but with Dolby C (it could have been dbx). The 20db extra headroom is just unbeatable especially with the live recording.

But being a tech I never had to pay anyone to do the alignments for me.

Cheers Tim.
 
I agree. One other thing to keep in mind is that the high pitch of tape hiss can make it sound like your "highs" are better. Another thing is that cassettes were designed as a voice dictation medium. That it evolved into something better is rather amazing. Anything which helps the extremely narrow track and slow speed cassette should be used. The dbx system can be transparent, when you take into consideration the points already discussed above. One must, to the point of being totally anal, properly maintain all parameters of the recorder. This is even more critical for the cassette vs that of open reel machines.
 
hey guys,
i've recorded some albums on a tascam 688 the last year or so and it is set just like the 238 i guess. So DBX 1-4 on/off and 5-8 on/off. I always left the dbx on, on all 8 tracks. It hugely depends on what sound you want off course, but for me a slightly lo-fi sound will do and i always try to keep the hiss at a minimum.

The highs and lows on cassette are not too good to begin with, but nonetheless i made some damn fine recordings on my 688...
for example: www.woodyandpaul.com (you'll find some tunes there, sorry for spammin', btw some of the text on the site is in dutch)
 
A little trick if using dbx on narrow tracks, especially cassette...

Drum roll as I reveal one of my secret weapons from back in the day… :D

If your results are a little too warm with dbx NR and you want to restore some sparkle on mixdown, this is where the older BBE Sonic Maximizers really shine. :)

I’ve had the BBE 422 since they came out and used it with my 246 portastudio. They don’t call the Sonic Maximizer the unprocessor for nothing. It really does work well.

So there’s another little golden nugget… an answer to those questions 20 years ago, like… “Beck, how do you get all that sound out of a little 4-track cassette portastudio?”

I just shrugged my shoulders. :cool:

But now you know :D

The Alesis Micro Enhancer is no slouch either and will have much the same effect… great for restoring muddy audio on videotapes for transferring to DVD.

Ok then… Merry Christmas… and it didn’t even cost me a damn stamp. :p

~Tim
:)
 
Beck said:
A little trick if using dbx on narrow tracks, especially cassette...

<edit>

If your results are a little too warm with dbx NR and you want to restore some sparkle on mixdown, this is where the older BBE Sonic Maximizers really shine. :)

<edit>

"Oh boy, this is a surprise. This is just a reeeeal nice surprise. Just a reeeeeeeeal nice surprise." :D :D :D
 

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In nearly 25 years of my own Tascam dbx encoded home recording tracks,...

I've only heard a obvious pumping sound a couple of times. It's really a negligible number of times, or examples I have on my tapes of dbx pumping. (IMO) That's not a bad track record. I usually shoot for an average 0VU on tracking and mixdown, (fyi), if it's anything to'ya. :eek: ;)

dbx in this context is not colorization. It's transparent performance of simultaneously cutting tape noise and boosting dynamic range, which it does pretty well. (IMO) Pumping effects of dbx can be avoided with practice & knowledge of setting appropriate levels. It's nothing too complicated, but takes practice nonetheless. dbx (or any other NR system) is not a perfect process.

From my own standpoint, I feel that dbx is a pretty effective and friendly NR, but on the other hand, I've never heard a Dolby B or C NR that I thought was quite as effective. Dbx has yielded more sonic satisfaction in tape NR, to me in a subjective sense. As always, YMMV.

E'thing Tim Gillett references about proper setup and calibration & NR is something I'd like to echo, without going on repetitively. :eek:


That's my 2¢ :eek: ;)
 
cjacek said:
"Oh boy, this is a surprise. This is just a reeeeal nice surprise. Just a reeeeeeeeal nice surprise." :D :D :D

I couldn’t be more surprised if I woke up tomorrow with my head sewn to the carpet!!! :p
 

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Beck, did anyone ever tell you, you look just like Chevy Chase? Probably not, huh? :D
 
Beck said:
A little trick if using dbx on narrow tracks, especially cassette...

Drum roll as I reveal one of my secret weapons from back in the day… :D

If your results are a little too warm with dbx NR and you want to restore some sparkle on mixdown, this is where the older BBE Sonic Maximizers really shine. :)

I’ve had the BBE 422 since they came out and used it with my 246 portastudio. They don’t call the Sonic Maximizer the unprocessor for nothing. It really does work well.

So there’s another little golden nugget… an answer to those questions 20 years ago, like… “Beck, how do you get all that sound out of a little 4-track cassette portastudio?”

I just shrugged my shoulders. :cool:

But now you know :D

The Alesis Micro Enhancer is no slouch either and will have much the same effect… great for restoring muddy audio on videotapes for transferring to DVD.

Ok then… Merry Christmas… and it didn’t even cost me a damn stamp. :p

~Tim
:)

Why would you want to cover up an obvious problem with the deck with a BBE?

Band-aids only compound the problem. Better to fix the deck. The deck will just get worse sounding the longer this goes on with possible increased wear (in the wrong places) on the heads. Alignment of the machine is the best medicine (electrical and mechanical)
 
Agree. Significant artefacts created by mismatched dolby or dbx are normally too unpredictable for an after-the-fact effects processer to fix.

The problem is the dbx or Dolby decoder can only work properly when correct information is supplied to it from the playback signal. When that information is not correct, there's almost no way an extra processer is going to supply the information without having it itself. Where is it going to get it from?

If you have a valuable recording the only way to properly fix the problem is to send the correct information to the correct decoder. Sure it's information in analog form but information nonetheless. You have to think analog not digital. Voltages and frequencies, not 1's and 0's.

Speaking of information, that is a very little understood piece of analog information, in my experience. Save your money and fix the problem at its source.

Cheers Tim.
 
I, for one, did not interpret Beck's post as having anything to do with an ill calibrated cassette deck. It was merely a tip of restoring / adding some sparkle during a mixdown.
 
Yep, cjacek got it right about what I was saying.

The BBE Sonic Maximizer is a useful tool to be employed on properly aligned equipment. IMO, It works as advertised.

The manipulation of electronic audio signals is a complex process, with plenty of opportunities for that signal to be corrupted along the way. There are many tools at our disposal to rectify various problems. The BBE device is one of them. It’s that simple.

I've always kept my recorders perfectly calibrated, even before I knew how to do it myself. If you want to see perfectly calibrated decks with perfectly matched NR encoding/decoding, come on over… or you can go to the Smithsonian, whichever’s closer. ;)

~Tim
:)
 
Slowrider said:
Beck, did anyone ever tell you, you look just like Chevy Chase? Probably not, huh? :D

No, you're the first to make that observation. It's probably just the hat...

So take off your hat and look again. :D
 
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