Newbie seeking help with '57 Twin and E609...

[Sinnerboy61]

First off, thank goodness I found this board. I've been beating my head against the wall trying to figure out what's wrong with my recording setup/technique. I've been playing music for quite some time now, but I've recently taken up trying to do some home recording. Nothing big, just guitar/vocal type stuff. I don't have the best equipment (other than the '57 Twin Amp R.I. and my MIA Strat) for recording, so I don't expect a wonderful sound. "Good" will suffice.

To start with, I'm using a Tascam Portastudio (feel free to cringe now) with the regular hifi tape. My mic is a Sennheiser E609. I got that mic because I heard it was good to mic an amplifier with, and also because the Twin is LOUD, and I knew it could take the SPL. I like to overdrive my amp, and through the headphones, it sounds fine. After I record though, I find myself turning the volume up all the way on the tascam to even remotely hear the amp, and when I do it sounds fuzzy. It doesn't make sense to me because the levels on my recorder are set to never go into the "red" zone, and it sounds fine through the headphones.

I'm sure I'm doing a bunch of stuff wrong, but I did read the directions to the portastudio...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Zach

 

[kid klash]

The "fuzzy" thing sounds like you might have an impedance mismatch problem between your mic and the portastudio. Does the portastudio have XLR inputs on it, or are you using an XLR-to-1/4" impedance matching transformer, or are you using a mic cable with an XLR on one end (for the mic) and a 1/4" connector on the other end?

Another cause for "fuzzy" track recording is overloading the input on the portastudio... you said you like to crank it up loud, which the mic will handle, but the input preamp in the portastudio might not be able to handle it.

 

[bubbagump]

I have a feeling you are not using a preamp and are using one of those evil XLR to 1/4" TS cables. Gotta use a preamp.

 

[Minion]

I second That, It sounds Like you aren"t running your Mics through a Pre-amp first and I doubt the Porta Studio has any real Preamps which is why the Volume is so Low....

I suggest you Pick up a Couple Channels of Pre or a Small Mixer and use those Pre"s and output from the Pre into the Porta Studio or you could Forget the Porta studio and Just go into the Pre-amp and then out into your PC and Record to your Hard Drive......


Cheers

 

[FALKEN]

sorry, I used a portastudio for years and never needed a preamp.

you want to set your levels so that they hit the red every now and then.

what do you have the outputs of the porta plugged into to listen when you are not using headphones?

 

[Sinnerboy61]

The "fuzzy" thing sounds like you might have an impedance mismatch problem between your mic and the portastudio. Does the portastudio have XLR inputs on it, or are you using an XLR-to-1/4" impedance matching transformer, or are you using a mic cable with an XLR on one end (for the mic) and a 1/4" connector on the other end?

Another cause for "fuzzy" track recording is overloading the input on the portastudio... you said you like to crank it up loud, which the mic will handle, but the input preamp in the portastudio might not be able to handle it.

Ok...my mic cable is an XLR on both ends. I have no pre-amp, and the only thing I have to hear what I have recorded, is my headphones

I like to keep things analog, so going to a computer isn't something I'm really into, or wanting to do, rather. Thanks though.

 

[slidey]

sorry, I used a portastudio for years and never needed a preamp.

you want to set your levels so that they hit the red every now and then.

what do you have the outputs of the porta plugged into to listen when you are not using headphones?

I used an old 688 & it worked fine as well

I can't honestly remember if it had XLR connections or not.......................I think it did

it does sound like the input is being battered sensless by the (enviable) 57 twin (FUCKER)...........I've used a 69 but a 57....................

 

[Sinnerboy61]

it does sound like the input is being battered sensless by the (enviable) 57 twin (FUCKER)...........I've used a 69 but a 57....................

hmm...

 

[smtcharlie]

This is a wierd problem, and I suspect something simple is going on.

I actually just bought one of these:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Tascam-414mkII-Portastudio?sku=240781

to do simple demos, and the sound is fairly good. Crunchy midrange heavy analog type sound.

The other day I did a demo where I took an SM-58 only as a room mic and used it to record an electric guitar (not plugged into an amp) and quiet voice for a song idea. The Porta had enough gain to pick up both fine, you shouldn't need another pre-amp. And it was surprisingly not hissy.

So you should be able to do what you are trying to do. I sometimes forget to put the Porta in different modes to listen rather than record (you have to put it on "1" or whatever to record, then "safe" to listen....also have to go to "mic/line" to record, then "tape" to listen).

If you are hearing sound in your headphones while recording (make sure that you are actually hearing it on headphones rather than just from the loud amp in the room with you), and you can see the meter light up on the Porta, you should be capturing sound. And if you are capturing sound, you just need to learn the quirks of playing it back. I recorded over a guitar part once when I forgot the setting above too!

When you record, is the meter lighting up? Like in the yellow to orange range?

After I record though, I find myself turning the volume up all the way on the tascam to even remotely hear the amp, and when I do it sounds fuzzy. It doesn't make sense to me because the levels on my recorder are set to never go into the "red" zone, and it sounds fine through the headphones.

Zach

 

[smtcharlie]

Oh, and my Porta doesn't have XLR inputs, so I use this type of adapter:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...XLR-Female-to-14-Male-Mono-Adapter?sku=339523

with a standard mic cable. Works fine. Only thing that I'm lacking is phantom power for condenser mics.

 

[slidey]

hmm...

confused........................I want your amp...........................I'm jealous..............................I wasn't being cheeky in the slightest.........................................humorous..........................................................as you know it's hard to come by shelf standard 57 twins these days.........................

 

[slidey]

in fact it's to come by any new vintage stuff

 

[Sinnerboy61]

hah no worries, no offense taken. Figured that's what you meant by the way ya said it Yeah, this is a '57 Reissue - the first handwired amp Fender's done in close to 50 years, so it's def. not a "thin" or "fuzzy" amp and should come through nice and clear. I have relieved some problems by increasing the gain on the input of the portastudio, and getting the little lights to get into the "red zone" (0 - +3) Sounds a lot better, but still sounds flat..:-/

Any ideas? I have no reverb (on the amp, or external), and I have a Boss CS-3 Compressor that I bought for the tele, but heard you could use it to record as well (vocal mic?)

Thanks again you guys!

SB

 

[slidey]

, but still sounds flat..:-/

Any ideas? I have no reverb (on the amp, or external), and I have a Boss CS-3 Compressor that I bought for the tele, but heard you could use it to record as well (vocal mic?)

Thanks again you guys!

SB

yep you can use the boss to compress anything ya like, however I would recomend the old phrase "fucketh with ye olde placing of the mic on your re-issue 57 twin"

you'd have to be exceptionally rich (I'd think) to have an original unless bought at the time

 

[tangerine]

It doesn't make sense to me because the levels on my recorder are set to never go into the "red" zone, and it sounds fine through the headphones.

I'm sure I'm doing a bunch of stuff wrong, but I did read the directions to the portastudio...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Zach

Make a start by allowing the Tascams recording level to peak at around +3 db, not constantly just so if it peaks it bounces to about +3 and not drop below between 0 db and -3 db when instruments are playing. You will find you get a nice warm tape compression on your recordings, doing this makes your recordings louder than the hiss that is created by tape recordings. You can't do this on digital recordings because it sounds fuckin' horrible, but with anologue you'll find it works a treat. Also have a look at your mic placement, usually 12" off axis of speaker, crank up the twin and you should be kickin'.
Happy recording

 

[Sinnerboy61]

Make a start by allowing the Tascams recording level to peak at around +3 db, not constantly just so if it peaks it bounces to about +3 and not drop below between 0 db and -3 db when instruments are playing. You will find you get a nice warm tape compression on your recordings, doing this makes your recordings louder than the hiss that is created by tape recordings. You can't do this on digital recordings because it sounds fuckin' horrible, but with anologue you'll find it works a treat. Also have a look at your mic placement, usually 12" off axis of speaker, crank up the twin and you should be kickin'.
Happy recording

Thanks for the good advice. Things sound pretty decent now. I'm still confused about the mic location. I know not to place it directly in the middle..I have it about mid speaker height, and off to the right side of the speaker. I've tried pulling the mic back(2-5"), but have settled with it right on the grill. Opinions about placing an E609?

 

[Sinnerboy61]

you'd have to be exceptionally rich (I'd think) to have an original unless bought at the time

Maybe in the U.K. Depends on who you know over here. I went with a re-issue because it's built the same, but has all new parts. Had it retubed TAD short bottles and EH 12AX7's. Pulled both EH 5U4's and plugged in 1 vintage RCA 5u4. Really happy with the tone of this one.

 

[slidey]

Opinions about placing an E609?

crumbs wherever sounds good.................litterally, admittedly I've never used that microphone but I've had mics in the room that I 've accidently turned on without realising it (as I'll use ambient room mics) & I've dispensed with the close mic altogether....................horses for courses really, everyone on this board will have their ways & opinions & a general thing will come out of it


I generally have my mic of choice quite close to the grill though as a starting place & move from there

 

[rayc]

Thank goodness for Falken & Tangerine, (well done & deserving of many rep points folks - give them some please),
You'll get lovely recordings with their suggestions. Mic placement is not a science really. There are preferred modes and tried & true processes but really it takes trial & error to account for the room and other variables.
Set up to record, speak into the mic about where it's placed, then play a phrase. Repeat over a range of placements explaining into mic where it is (you might even like to place little coloured or alphabet stickers on the grill & floor to make this easier) & repeat the same phrase with the same guitar amp settings each time. Then play back & select the ones you like best & draw them on a piece of paper as well as leave those stickers in place.
Enjoy your analogue - I begin all my recordings in my Yamaha MT100 then bump them up into my PC for "finishing". I still feel the tape beginnings are essential. Oh, & the preamps in my "portaloo" are much better than a whole pile I've sampled in outboard world too.

 

[Sinnerboy61]

Again, thank you all very much for the helpful idea. I'll say again I'm glad I found this board. I managed to belong to the Telecaster Discussion Page, Strat-Talk, and the guitar refinishing forum (reranch), but never found this untill just the other day.

Terrific!

Thanks again guys!