Newbie Going analog with a TEAC 80-8.

[cjacek]

Is there a downside to pancakes? because 2 extra reels from pancakes seems a lot better than just 1 reel

And just out of curiosity, I was watching this auction for awhile and it ended up selling for quite a bit. It all looks like Ampex 456.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260504329150&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Is the dude that won this auction about to get a bunch of tape that could possibly mess up his machine like the crap I have? haha.

My best advice would be to buy from a fairly popular and busy vendor, to assure fresh stock. Here's one: http://usrecordingmedia-store.stores.yahoo.net/

Yes, use pancakes BUT, BUT... you NEED to be certain that the empty reels that you got off eBay have the removable 3 screw design. It makes mounting a lot easier.

With regard to that AMPEX tape lot for sale on eBay.... Stay very far away from that! Familiarize yourself with this: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=228067

Generally speaking stay away from back-coated Ampex branded tape, even more so if it's used.

 

[Herm]

I was just wondering why do you want splicing and leader tape?

 

[samth3mancgp]

Yea I am going to wait until they arrive here before I purchase any pancakes. Here is the auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120485442002&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

The reels look like they have more than just 3 screws maybe it would still be able to mount in there properly? i will try it with the inside of one of the ampex reels to see if it will still fit properly.

And about the splicing tape and such, I thought it was an essential part of recording with reel to reels? If it isnt all that important I'll save the money for maybe another reel. If the splicing tape and leader tape are not nessesary then I will probably get the first reel on US recording media because it seems like it would have the freshest tape for the cost, and pancakes from splicit since it's the only place that has them. what if the eBay reels will not work properly for the 3 screw configuration? could I run the tape onto the other reel using the machine? maybe without running the tape across the transport?

 

[cjacek]

Yup, what you've got there is 5 screw type and I doubt it'll work mounting the pancakes. You can spool them on but it's a rather risky proposition. I haven't done it but if you have a turntable you could adjust it and the 80-8 to be aligned correctly, on the same horizontal plane and try to spool from the tt to the tape deck. On the other hand, maybe just spring for the proper tape (from US Recording) on the metal reels? It's a bit more but then you have no worries. You could always use the empty 5 screw reels as follows: Mount your proper reel (full of tape) on the right side. Mount the empty 5 screw reel on the left. Rewind the tape from R to L. Record. When you finish tracking, you have a real nice, tight, even pack on your original reel. This is the proper way to store tape ("tails out") which also eliminates pre-print (or low level signal prior to original signal). Don't forget to Rewind from R to L again when playing back.

Owning a splicing tape is not an essential part of analog recording and neither is leader tape. It's just one of the many tools to use. Try to first master owning a tape recorder.

 

[samth3mancgp]

I do have a turntable. That method seems pretty risky and last resort to me. I Couldn't just set the pancake on the left side of the recorder and run it onto one of the empty reels? or would that not work?

I'll probably trash the other reels of ampex and use those reels cuz they have the 3 screw design for some pancakes and use the that rewinding technique using the 5 screw reels for good storage. (does that technique put unnecessary wear on the heads?) Or the tape. is there really any measurable wear on tape?

I just bought a reel of SM911 from US recording media at a decent price. I thought i'd just get it already on the reel ready to go with the freshest tape I can get. Later purchases may be pancakes though since I'm going to have a bunch of usable reels.

 

[cjacek]

I Couldn't just set the pancake on the left side of the recorder and run it onto one of the empty reels? or would that not work?

That method is the least desired of all. Don't do it. Your pancake will spill all over.

I'll probably trash the other reels of ampex and use those reels cuz they have the 3 screw design for some pancakes and use the that rewinding technique using the 5 screw reels for good storage. (does that technique put unnecessary wear on the heads?) Or the tape. is there really any measurable wear on tape?

Yeah, use the 3 screw Ampex empty reels that you have for the pancakes.

That technique I mention was pretty much standard and no, it won't harm but rather help the tape and will not put undue stress anywhere.

I just bought a reel of SM911 from US recording media at a decent price. I thought i'd just get it already on the reel ready to go with the freshest tape I can get. Later purchases may be pancakes though since I'm going to have a bunch of usable reels.

Yup, that's what I'd do too.

 

[samth3mancgp]

The reel of RMGI came today, sealed in the shrink wrap!

However, now that i'm no longer just messing around (and probably messing up the machine with the old 456 haha) I want to be setup as accurately as possible before recording too much with it. I want to calibrate record and playback level and EQ, Bias etc.. I have a feeling it may be alot of work. I have a multimeter, and I have "TrueRTA", and Visual Analyzer 2009 from links in another thread about DIY calibration. I do not have a test tape and I will not be able to afford one. Is it necessary to have one? oris it only used for head alignment?

 

[cjacek]

If I were you, I'd actually do some test recordings on that new tape first, after *carefully and *completely cleaning the heads and all the parts the tape touches. How's the rubber pinch roller? Any chance of some close up photos of the tape path?

*this is critical

 

[samth3mancgp]

Sure I can try and get some good ones using a nicer camera. I'll clean it up and de-mag. then take some pix! I noticed that the outer screw for the pinch roller is somewhat stripped and loose. but I have had no problems with it at all. It's not like it is falling off or anything like that. When I opened the box of RMGI it was perfectly wound up it looked so perfectly would that it looked like a block of dark brown rock! haha

Hopfully I can post HTML links to photobucket photos on here

 

[samth3mancgp]

So Here Is the Pictures! It took forever to clean it, I destroyed at least 10 Q-tips and had to pick away sticky Goo from some of the guides with my fingernails.

They are nasty....

Heres one of the pinch roller.

Pinch Roller with assembly

Left side Capstan and tension arm

Right Side Capstan, (I didnt take pictures with the pinch roller attached)

The right side tension arm that has given me trouble, hopefully only because of the crappy the 456

A shot of all of the heads. This was the best I could get. I was using a Nikon D40. and wen I zoom in on the full resolution pics I can see the tiniest little specs of dust haha.

Here's the erase head (I had a slight erase problem on track 2 where It would leave a trace of what was on it from a previous take.. can the oxide buildup on the heads create problems erasing?

Playback head.. looks kinda wierd. hopefully not a bad thing. sounds god though.

Another one of all of the heads, and most of the transport.


I think this should be enough to give you guys an idea Of how I cleaned it. I did everything at least twice, and sometimes more until I didnt see anything on the Q-tips.

 

[jpmorris]

Just FYI, using isopropyl on the rubber parts isn't a good idea. I've heard it can dry them out. If you can't get rubber cleaner, warm soapy water is supposed to work quite well.

EDIT:

And yes, oxide on the erase head will cause that sort of problem.

 

[Beck]

So Here Is the Pictures! It took forever to clean it, I destroyed at least 10 Q-tips...

They are nasty....

Bet ya can hear a lot better now though.

Now get to work on the other ear.

 

[samth3mancgp]

Bet ya can hear a lot better now though.

Now get to work on the other ear.

hahahahhahahhahahahaha

and, yea I used just water on the pinch roller. Everything is 100 times better than when I first pulled the nasty ampex reel off of it. I think I'm going to actually throw the crap away, So i'm not tempted to roll it to save money on a new reel. Although after cleaning the transport that extensively It makes me not want to ever put any ampex on there EVER again!

What kind of stuff should I record to the new tape as a test? instruments? just sine wave tones? I have not done any kind of calibrations on it

 

[Beck]

hahahahhahahhahahahaha

and, yea I used just water on the pinch roller. Everything is 100 times better than when I first pulled the nasty ampex reel off of it. I think I'm going to actually throw the crap away, So i'm not tempted to roll it to save money on a new reel. Although after cleaning the transport that extensively It makes me not want to ever put any ampex on there EVER again!

What kind of stuff should I record to the new tape as a test? instruments? just sine wave tones? I have not done any kind of calibrations on it

Yep, 91-92 is in the bad tape year’s range. Unfortunately there’s nothing permanent you do about the tape but replace it.

You should start out recording tones -- a 1kHz tone to each track @ 0 VU, and then play back each track to see how closely playback level matches record level. It should be within a dB, and ideally will be right on 0 VU just as recorded.

 

[cjacek]

So Here Is the Pictures! It took forever to clean it, I destroyed at least 10 Q-tips and had to pick away sticky Goo from some of the guides with my fingernails.

You did a great job, especially that the q-tips took care of the nooks & crannies, detail work. Next time, it's a really good idea to use 100% cotton make up remover pads. IMHO, they're just more effective and quicker on larger transports.

That pinch roller is a candidate for re-conditioning but it'll probably be best to eventually replace it, as in soon.

Dirty tape path, heads and a bad rubber roller can cause all sort of audio / mechanical problems. I recall getting a really low use TEAC deck, of the same vintage, and the previous owner never cleaned it, had major rec / play problems. The heads were caked in hardened oxide and it took a half a pack of cotton pads and a good amount of alcohol and time to actually get it all off. Another deck it would fast forward when I pressed play and yet another deck it would cause tremendous wow / flutter. It was just a bad pinch roller that wouldn't grip. Simple fix. Yet another deck, the transport would just stop. Bad tape. All simple fixes masquerading as serious problems.

Whenever I see this sort of cleaning dedication, my hat's off to you!

 

[samth3mancgp]

WOW! the new tape rolls AMAZING! that right tension arm is moving gracefully along with the tape instead of jumping and bouncing randomly due to the stickiness of the ampex. I recorded test tones to it. all 1khz, all at 0 VU and channels 2-6 work fine (+/- 1 VU on playback on both sync mode and on playback mode. Channel 1 seems to be dead although it was working recently? I cant get anything in or out of it. I checked and it is not a problem with the mixer either. Channel 7 records fine and will playback fine on sync monitor mode but it drops ALOT, almost all the way down to nothing when switched to playback mode . and Channel 8 will record at 0 VU and then playback at very low similar to channel 7 except it plays low on both monitor sync AND playback mode.

Any ideas for channels 7 and 8? channel 1 is not looking good at all. I might take out the card and clean off it's contacts if that will help? Any other tests I should do with the channels I have working while I find out what's wrong with 1, 7 , and 8? maybe erasing? The new tape is great, I'm pretty sure it is an issue with the machine. I am pretty sure that the playback problems on channels 7 and 8 were present on the 456 too. because I had to crank those tracks after recording them. and channel 1 was working recently. Thanks for all the help thus far! I'm excited to learn a lot more about the analog world and get my machine setup for some pristine recordings!

 

[dodgeaspen]

Looking good so far. Those q tips were well used. Cjack recommended that I change from the q tips to the make up pads and it was so much easier to use. So be sure and take his advice on that. You might be on the right track with moving the cards around. I've had similar problems with my 38 and it was recommended I try the same thing. Good luck.

 

[Herm]

I would clean it again. As dirty as those qtips are I would say that if you only used 10 of them you need to clean some more. And make sure the tape lifters are going up far enough for the tape to make good contact with the heads. I have seen them get gunked up inside the machine to where they wont go up far enough. It could need that area cleaned out and oiled.

 

[samth3mancgp]

should i get all of them out or just the ones that are giving me trouble? and what should I do to them? I was going to clean the contacts of the card with the cleaner. the sockets would be hard to get to. I have channel 6 out right now because that one had given me problems in sync mode before.

 

[samth3mancgp]

I just pulled out channel 1, 6, 7, and 8 and cleaned the dust off tem with the compressed air and cleaned the contact on the end of the card with the contact cleaner and a q tip. channel 1 lives!!! when I first recorded the 1khz tone to ch 1 It didnt playback at the same level as it was recorded buta quick adjustment on monitor and playback levels on the card and it is fine! the level on playback after recording at 0 VU on channel 1 is within the +/- 1 VU range. however I cannot do the same with channels 7 and 8. i push both the playback and sync volumes all the way and they do not make it up to the matching VU. Do I just push the record level a bit more for these channels to compensate? It feels good to be making progress!