Newbie drummer needs help

  • Thread starter Thread starter D_Vincent
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D_Vincent

D_Vincent

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Ive been a guitar player for about 26 years however I just bought a set of second hand drums and need some help in regards to upgrading some stuff.

The cymbol and high hat are horrible so I want to get some new ones...I dont want to spend a ton of cash...at the most my budget is $250 - $300.

With that budget I have to buy high hat and one crash/Ride cymbol...I also need new drum skins/heads and a new snare wire.

Not sure if I measured drum size/heads right however if I did measure right the sizes I need are.

14 inch snare
10 inch tom
12 inch tom
16 inch floor
22 inch kick

I guess I will need to buy skinns for top and bottom of drums...are the tops and bottom the same type of drum head?...I seen on you tube that the bottom ones could be thinner.

Im ordering from Canada...I will order through LAmusic...they have the most selection for the price.

I was looking at this high hat to buy...Im just a beginner so I think it will do for now.

http://www.lamusic.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PZ13PR&CartID=1

Looking at this crash ride cymbol as well

http://www.lamusic.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZBT18CR&CartID=3

Looking at this crash cymbol

http://www.lamusic.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ZBT14C&CartID=2

my shopping List is

High Hat
Cymbol (or cymbols)
Snare Wire (my snare is 14 inch so I was wondering what size snare wire is needed)
8 Drum heads/skins


Hopfully I can get some help from more experienced drummers on what to buy.

I also need some advice on tuning drums...is there a drum tuning software out there...maybe I can mic drums and the software would tell me if Im tuning properly.

Thanks for any help
 
Bottom heads are called resonant heads. Top heads are batter heads. I have experience with Evans and Remo heads and prefer Evans. Just make sure you measure the diameter of the head from rim to rim and you will be fine. The very best way to figure out which cymbals to buy will be to try to make it into a music store and test some out. I use all Sabian and have always been satisfied. I test all equipment at guitar center but i'm unsure if they exist in Canada
 
I've never heard that term used but yes, i'm sure that's what they mean. And you were right about it appearing thinner
 
Ok thanks

I will check in on this thread tomorrow and see if there is any other input I can use.

I wonder if there is a drum tunning software out there or does something like that exist yet.

They have tons of tuners for guitar however I did a search for drums and didnt find anything.
 
You may want to browse the threads at www.drumchat.com

$300 might get you a decent set of hats and a crash/ride if you go used. I'm a huge fan of Zildjian New Beat hi-hats, but a set of those would more than likely soak up your whole budget. I recently picked up a set of Wuhan hats really cheap ($60) and was amazed at how good they sound. Make sure you play whatever cymbals you're looking at buying, because two "identical" cymbals (same manufacturer and model) can sound completely different.

There are plenty of people and places out there who will be more than happy to sell you one device or another that's supposed to help you tune drums, but nothing comes close to a good ear, a little bit of knowledge, and the willingness to experiment until you find the sound you want. Tuning a guitar is pretty much a science, drum tuning is more of an art. There are lots of YouTube videos on the subject. Bob Gatzen does a great job in his videos.
 
Thanks for the info

I am going to wait before I buy anything...like you mention my budget wont get me what i want.

Im not a total newbie to drums.

I played for 1 year when I was 17 however the drums were to loud and was told I couldnt play them anymore so I sold them.

So here I am 22 years later trying to get a kit together.

i basically write and record my own tunes and collab online like a lot of people do however I hate having to ask for real drum track all the time when Im pretty sure I can do it myself...I wont be as good as a drummer playing for years and years however at least i can get a drum track when I need one...plus it takes a long time to get real drummers on songs.

----------------

I was going to pull the trigger and buy some sabian solar hats and stuff however I had a feeling that would be a mistake so I did a google search on them.

Seems the solar stuff is made of brass...people were saying stay away from the solar stuff.

People were saying Bronze is what you want and perhaps Sabian B8 series would be a good place to start.
 
when i started out, i had a mix of sabian B8 and B8 pro. it worked out because with not a lot of money, i was able to get the cymbals i needed and slowly upgrade one by one. They also sell them in packs (maybe some hats,a crash, and a ride) and that will save some money
 
I'd highly recommend buying used stuff, maybe from Craigslist or someplace like that compared to buying new stuff. There's no reason to buy new and pay double.

Cymbals generally vary incredibly and it's really best to try them out in person versus sending away for them.

If you don't mind trashy cymbals, Wuhan are exceptional value, but they have a distinct sound that's probably not for most people. Generally, ride cymbals are the hardest to find that you like, followed by hihats. Crash cymbals are pretty easy to find. Used Paiste 602 rides are pretty easy to find and sound good and record excellent.

Most of my favorite cymbals have a few flaws, like small cracks that have been drilled out. That's because they sound good so I've played them a lot. I have other cymbals that look perfect that I don't play. Because of that, I actually look for cymbals with flaws as they are often the good ones and they can often be had for peanuts. Two of my favorite Zildjians were bought, cracks and all, for $1 each, and to me they sound better than most music store $250 cymbals. I have other cymbals that would sell for $1500 because they're perfect, that I don't really care for that much.
 
dintymoore said:
If you don't mind trashy cymbals, Wuhan are exceptional value, but they have a distinct sound that's probably not for most people.
Click to expand...
+1!!!!

I have a Wuhan ride cymbal in addition to the hats mentioned earlier. That thing has a pure, ringing tone that cuts through like nothing else I've ever heard, and the bell sound rivals a K Dark Ride, but... Every other Wuhan ride I've tried sounded like crap. There's so much variance in their sound that it's hard to believe that two "identical" cymbals even came from the same manufacturer.
 
Thanks for the input

Im searching the canadian kijiji classifieds (for Halifax region) in hopes of finding what i need for cymbol and highhats...might as well buy second hand...there are a ton of people selling drum gear so I just have to wait it out and pick what works for me.

There were some nice cymbols up for sale but I didnt respond to ad in time.

Here is the classifieds in case anyone wants to check out Im looking at.

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/f-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-drums-percussion-W0QQCatIdZ612
 
There's Craigslist too http://halifax.en.craigslist.ca/msg/ and you might try to see if there's any music stores with second hand stuff.

I don't know if you can do this there, but I've run ads like "WTB Used Cymbals" on Craigsist and have got real good results that way.

BTW I was born in Halifax, went to LeMarchant! The Gretsch drums I still have were bought used in Dartmouth. Small world (actually it's pretty big). :)

Another thing to think about is that the stick you use has a big effect on the sound of a cymbal. It depends on some factors. If you're playing loud all the time it probably has less effect. But on some cymbals, like vintage K's, the smaller tipped sticks sound dramatically better than big tips if you're playing softer. But big tips tend to sound best on snare and toms, so you have to find what works for you.
 
Updating thread with some things I bought second hand and what i paid for them.

Also wondering what other cymbols should I get...should I get another crash and if so should it be a different size?...Im thinking a ride cymbol and perhaps a splash would be a nice addition as well (obviously) however I was wondering more about the second crash and should it be different size ect.

Zildjian 16" Medium Thin Crash (excellent condition paid $50 canadian currency)



Zildjian ZHT hi hats (in excellent conditon paid $60)

 
Great!

What I've found with cymbals is that every one is different. I've found crap that I liked and expensive ones that were terrible. Very much like buying shoes.

If you end up not liking those ones you bought you could probably sell them at a profit or at least break even. You usually can't do that with new stuff, plus cymbals generally sound better as they age, sometimes dramatically better.

As far as the other crash being a different size, I don't think that matters as long as they go well together. Russ Kunkel, who made tons of hits in the 70's, used a 20" Paiste on one side and another 20" Paiste on the other. They were technically the same cymbal but sounded entirely different. I have an old AZ 14" hihat cymbal that I use as a crash. It's got a big wedge cut out of it but sounds fine, real fast.
 
Ok thanks again

I wonder if having one crash is enough to get by in a recording situation.

Im not really ready to record yet...still need drum mics and at least a 4 input interface plus I need to practice my drumming as well.

When I do record Im going to start with a basic/modest recording setup

Overhead 1 (apex 435 condensor)
Overhead 2 (apex 435 condensor)
Snare (Sm57)
Kick (need to buy a shure beta 52 or a AKG D112 or maybe find a lower cost version of these two mics since im on a low budget)
 
Do you know how to play drums? I'm asking because you keep asking about the crashes in terms of recording. If you do know how to play, and you use one crash, then record with one crash too. If you don't know how to play, you probably will want another crash down the line. Depends on your style.
 
I played drums for 1 year when i was 17 (22 years ago)

So basically I have one year of experince with a 22 year hiatus.

I can carry a beat however the chops are not there in regards to fills/riffing and my timing needs to tighten up however I have the basics down.

Ive been practicing using some lessons over at freedrumlessons.com to try and expand on what I already know.

http://www.freedrumlessons.com/drum-lessons/

So far Ive started with the rudiments...I was able to play most of what they did in the video's almost right away so I guess thats a good start...hard part was remembering the rudiments I learned so I will have to go through them a few times untill some sink in and I can remember and use them when playing.

rudiments
http://www.freedrumlessons.com/drum-lessons/drum-rudiments.php

My biggest challenge right now is tuning the drums and getting the sound I want...dont want the drums to ring out or resonate to much however i dont want to totally muffle them either...Its tough to find a good sound however once I get some new skins/heads it may help in regards to tuning.
 
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