Newb questions on starting up, Acoustic Guitar + Vocals.

"Your opinion on the matter is interesting, but it is just that, an opinion - and this is the Newbies forum, please don't peddle opinions as facts. "

I don't and didn't. In fact(!) it wasn't actually my opinion but that of my son (I can tune, strum a few chords, re-string, fix most things including the electrics on guitars but that is about it) my SON is the musician and he said the Sontronics STC-2 "Gets in the bloody way!" So I bought two AKG P150s. He did not say a lot and they have more than enough output even using the gain shy Fast track pro but I could see he wasn't TOTALLY convinced. He perked up when I tried an SM57! Then dad had to stump up for an A&H ZED10 (wanted one anyway!).

I treat everyone's "voice" on all forums as opinion unless it a testable "fact" such as a specification figure.

OP. You might like to buy the latest, July issue of Sound on Sound? Good article on recording a guitar player/singer.

Dave.
 
Hi Houda
Go down to Billy Hydes and get a2 or 4 channel USB interface to run into your computer.
Most of them will do the trick for you.
Then run it with Audacity.

Problem solved.
ciao
 
Justsomeguy said:
i was digging round the internets to find decent clips of both the AT2020 and sE X1, and these that i think are quite interesting;

the sE X1 clips here with a little review. it's actually a shootout between the X1 and a Rode NT1a

the AT2020 clips on an array of sources. i'm afraid the link may not take you directly to the clips but it's a little drop down menu and just go through the mics until you get there (maybe a whole 3 clicks!)

As always, i'd say take all the clips with a pinch of salt and just because it sounds like that on that source in that room with that signal chain doesn't mean it will sound the same in your space with your gear. if you can try both i'd strongly suggest it :)
Click to expand...

Alone, I'd also take the posted clips with a large pinch of salt, both for the reasons you state and also because they're compressed files. Any evaluation not done with uncompressed wave files is heavily suspect.

However, I've had my own SE X1 test and the results confirmed what the guy said in that shoot out. The SE is a lovely little mic for the money--nicely detailed with just the right amount of warmth and no noticeable harshness or bumps in the frequency response. I still like my SE2200As a bit better but, for the money the X1 would be very hard to beat.

I should say that I've been an SE fan for a number of years. Purely by chance, before I left the UK I lived in the same town as their (well, Sonic Distribution's) original office (they've since moved too). While there I happened to notice them advertising a one week free loan service and, not expecting much, I took them up on it with several mics. I tested them against my "best" mics at the time (some Neumann and some AKG) as well as some cheaper ones (Studio Projects at that stage) and I was blown away by several of the mics in the SE range--I became an instant fan and have bought several of their offerings since then, both mics and a Reflexion filter.

SE are a truly innovative company and when they come out with something new, I pay attention.
 
Houda said:
Between the rode and the sE X1 i really found very little difference, one that would hardly matter to me. But it seems i failed that 3 clicks, i couldnt find it lol what dropdown was it under?
edit:nvm

i really cant hear much of a difference between teh a2020 and the others lol
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With respect, Houda, this might be down to your monitoring. I can hear a fairly dramatic difference between the 3, with the SE X1 my definite preference.

Or, if not your monitoring, it might also be down to you not having taught yourself to listen critically yet. The trouble is, the more you listen to something (for example the same track over and over again for a week while mixing) the more you hear (and, all to often, the worse it sounds to you!).
 
jfaulks said:
another fairly newbie here....have tried Audacity but want one that lets me listen and mix at the same time ---that is most important to me.....so what software is best for that? I don't like to record then listen and want to change something and have to go back and record all over again....I want to change the tone or other things while I'm listening to it.....thanx for any/all help!
Click to expand...

There are lots of good DAWs out there--the most important thing will be finding a User Interface that suits your way of working.

That said, the first one I'd try would be downloading the free trial of REAPER. Free to try, it's only $60 if you decide to buy it--much cheaper than most of the competition and darn good value for money.
 
Well i did listen to them off pc speakers so yes that would make sense. But i plan to use headphones so i guess i don't need the degree of excellence everyone else here goes for
 
Well, up to you of course, but a couple of things to think about:

First, headphones, particularly if you invest in decent ones, can give you a perception of you sound that is more, not less analytical than most speakers.

Second, just skim through thread after thread on this forum and see how many people post about "I thought mic X was fine to start with but, after a few mixes I'm becoming unhappy with it" or variations on that theme. It doesn't take long messing with recording to start being way more fussy about the sound you want to achieve.

As I say, it's purely up to you but those recommending decent mics are giving the benefit of their experience and try to help you avoid purchasing a "dead end street" that you will likely outgrow far too soon.
 
Yup :) il probobly end up going with the sE X1 but i might have to put recording on hold entirely due to other reasons.
 
Just adding to this thread instead of starting a new one.
I've bought my mic got the sE X1 saw it on gumtree for $120, $200 brand new and it has been used very little.
Anyways I'm undecided on what audio interface to get. Originally i was thinking of a tascam Us-122/us-144 mk2 however ive heard these are not very compatible with win7. Looking through the forums i seem quite a number of people with issues. I'm trying to spend a max of $200 on the interface, $250 if i really like it.
The alternative interfaces i have are the
-Presonus AudioBox
-Steinberg cI1 Audio Interface
-Yamaha Audiogram 6 USB
-Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6.
So I'm left with the delema as to what I should be getting. For those who don't know what I need from the interface, basically I need to be able to record vocals (which is my ldc) as well as my acoustic guitar. Ill be recording my guitar direct in but later on i would like to start using sdc mics, two of them as most recommend thats the way to go. So basically the interface needs 2 mic inputs and 1 guitar input* I forget what they are called*. So could anyone make a recommendation as to what I should get? Il need the preamps to be in the interface as I don't want to buy external ones, I'm not really sure what a good or bad preamp would be from those interfaces.
Also another newb question. I understand that the inputs are me pluggin the mics etc. in, what exactly are the outputs for? where would i be plugging them in eg. when a interface has say 4 in 6 out what exactly do i do with those 6 out? I would assume 1 would be for headphones, would the others connect to monitors? so you would need two more for that?. To start with i wont be using monitors only headphones but when i can afford them i will get monitors so i want the interface to have functionality for that.
Thanks everyone!!! but if there's an interface that isn't in my little list of alternatives

EDIT: Any ETA on USB 3.0 Interfaces? Il be custom building a desktop for recording/otheruse so il definetly have a few 3.0 Usbs on there
 
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Hi Houda,
Of those four AI's many here will not be suprised when I say go for the NI Ka6.

The Presonus I have not heard anything bad about but I don't know of it.

The Steinberg I have read a review of and it was very good but a bit pricey for what you get and, clincher for me, no MIDI.

The Yamaha "things" looked promising a couple of years ago but seem to have sunk without trace, anyone got/had one?

You are wise to consider W7/64compatibilty for any AI. Many are using "tweaked" Blista drivers and do not always work well with some PCs. One that is very solid with W7 apart from the Ka6 is the Fast track pro but I would not go there because of the low gain mic pres, otherwise it is still a very useful tool. You have missed out the Focusrite Saffire range.

Guitar ins? You mean high Z inputs. Yes the Ka6 has them but like all other AIs AFAIK they are inputs 1 and 2 and so you cannot have 2 mics AND guitar in there. You could have 2 mics and run guitar into lines 3 or 4 via a pedal to buffer it.

Outputs: 1 and 2 will generally feed your monitor speakers since recording software defaults 1 and 2 as "Master Stereo out" but the extra outs can be used in software as FX sends. One reason I went fo the NI was to have 4 tracks in and out of my Teac open reel machine. (it all plugs up to a breakout box)

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Well, you can check the specs', I/O and such yourself but the NI has much lower latency.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, how have you determined this? The actual latency of an interface itself is minimal; the big culprit is the round trip via the computer.

Obviously the drivers provided to run on the computer can affect this (causing slight differences) but, as both are ASIO devices, that side of things shouldn't be dramatic either.
 
Bobbsy said:
Out of curiosity, how have you determined this? The actual latency of an interface itself is minimal; the big culprit is the round trip via the computer.

Obviously the drivers provided to run on the computer can affect this (causing slight differences) but, as both are ASIO devices, that side of things shouldn't be dramatic either.
Click to expand...
Forum - Main Forums : PC Music

There is rather a lot of it! But the bottom line is that the interface and its drivers is the biggest player in the latency stakes.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Forum - Main Forums : PC Music

There is rather a lot of it! But the bottom line is that the interface and its drivers is the biggest player in the latency stakes.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Well, I've worked through that thread and, without wishing to de-rail this thread, rather think they're making a mountain out of a molehill. In practical terms, even the worst performer is adding 4 or 5ms of latency--the equivalent of your ear being four feet from your amplifier for example. Even so, this only comes into play if you're dealing with MIDI since most interfaces (and any worth having) offer some form of direct hardware monitoring to negate the effect of latency.

Even so, it was an interesting read.
 
Bobbsy said:
Well, I've worked through that thread and, without wishing to de-rail this thread, rather think they're making a mountain out of a molehill. In practical terms, even the worst performer is adding 4 or 5ms of latency--the equivalent of your ear being four feet from your amplifier for example. Even so, this only comes into play if you're dealing with MIDI since most interfaces (and any worth having) offer some form of direct hardware monitoring to negate the effect of latency.

Even so, it was an interesting read.
Click to expand...
With the greatest respect Bob I think you have missed a bit of the point.

The "speed of sound" argument is a valid one but 4mS of delay is no comfort if your amp is ALREADY 6 feet away!

My son can play a keyboard without difficulty with a 10mS latency, live (as it were) but if he is trying to stay with a recorded track even a small delay makes recording very hard work. We have found that Cubase (el 6) a fairly good computer, 2.7G 2 core W7/64 and a 2496 is just about fast enough (but if I could afford an i7 and an RME I KNOW he would be happier!).

But the most important point of the thread is that not to mince words, some AI manufacturers are telling porkies! They KNOW low latency sells and so some of them are making claims that just don't hold water. Vin, the guy who has done all these tests has had some rather "testy" shall we say communications from some of these firms. They do not like their dirty washing aired!

Dave.
 
Well, in this case the MIDI latency doesn't apply since the OP was clear that he's interested in something for vocals and acoustic guitar.

Up front, I should say I rarely deal with MIDI (and, on the rare occasion I do, it's in piano roll mode so there's no aspect of playing a keyboard along). For MIDI purposes I'm prepared to accept that ultra low latency is probably necessary.

However, there's a lot of hair-tearing and chest-beating about ridiculously low amounts of latency when dealing with live instruments. In that case, 4 or 5ms--or even 10ms is a miniscule amount compared to all the other potential sources of delay. Heck, with low notes, 4ms is the equivalent to being slightly out of phase (the wavelength of a note at 250Hz is about 4 feet, same as a 4ms delay).

Of course, the other thing here is that many people aren't aware that the latency caused by the AI drivers isn't necessarily the total. I recall a recent poster swearing that his AI was set to 4ms latency and he could hear enough lag that it was hard to play--but it turned out he was running through all sorts of software amp sims etc. once in the computer. I have no idea what his real total latency was--but it was a heck of a lot more than 4ms!

Anyway, in this case with the OP only needing vocal and guitar, any AI with direct hardware monitoring will do a fine job for him.
 
Fair enough Bob.
As I say, much of the investigation was about "hidden" latencies and the fact that people were not getting the speed they thought they should have.

I proved (to myself) a year or so ago that you do not need a blisteringly fast computer for decent MIDI keyboard playing latency.
I fed a dumb keyboard into a Fast Track pro (old yes, but faster than some new stuff it seems!) which in trun was plugged into an HP 850mHz (!) laptop with 1/2G of ram. Using win wavetable the latency was dire but using the little sampler app that came with the evolution kbd it was very acceptable.

Dave.
 
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