New Tune. Experiment. Would appreciate comments.

[bigbubba]

Hello folks,

I have been working on this lately. Can't figure out how to make it sound more heavy and how to have more growl in the rhythm guitar.

The rhythm guitar is on the preset that gbav recently PM'd me. (Thanks, man! ).

I've Flanged the rhythm guitars quite a bit for the growl but more than this and the guitars starts sounding fake and annoying. Can anyone tell me how to get the gutiars growling like heavy metal growling?

Drums - Sound ok, fake, good?
Bass - Sound ok, fake, good?
Rhythm Gits - Sound ok, or good?
Melody - Anyone like?

As most of you have noticed, I tend to have harsher and softer, chorus and verse, relation in my songs and I tend go for the contrast. Originally the verse was going to be done softer as in metal rock soft. But before even applying any effects, I starting digging the somewhat spanish tone to the verse and decided to keep it unmodified.

Any ideas, critiques, and suggestions welcome.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=419303&songID=3898678

 

[Dogman]

Bubba, what equipement do you have at your disposal? Do you use the pc, or a standalone? With a pc, I have found a multiband compressor can really help on guitars. I just smash some of the frequencies I want to lessen. usually the real low end, and some highs. Move the bands around some. If you don't have that, eq will work. Roll off the very bottom end, where the bass will sit. Get rid of some highs...that will enhance the mids some. (you might only roll off a few db. 1-3 should work). That might keep the guitars fat, and leave room for bass, drums and vox. I think you have a good start. Get some verb on the drums. Try a romy sound. And if you can compress them some, and enhance teh kick a bit, it will fit the vibe of the tune better. You might compress teh bass some, where it's the distorted bass. Confine the sound some. It sounds good, but get rid of the highs on it. Again, just small amounts. It has a good sound. It just takes up a lot of space.

I think you just need a few tweaks. All are going to be experimental. The overall vibe is cool. Continue. I like it...

 

[bigbubba]

Dogman, that's for listening man.

The equipment I have is just the PC and the Fender.

I was thinking the same thing that the lows and highs are a little too much. I have downloaded the BuzComp you had mentioned and I was thinking of super compressing the really low end and the really high end to see how this sounds. Haven't pass the guitar tracks thru that yet. Only becuase Acid doesn't do VST plug-ins so I have to load the wav in FLStudio and use the VST plug-in and then load it back in Acid. So I thought I'd wait until the guitars are done.

Kick louder? OK.
Compress drums? The entire drums track together or individual pieces?

OK, I'm gonna try to keep all this in mind when I continue working on this.

Thanks for listening. I appreciate it.

 

[michael_lifshit]

I think the guitars need wayyy less low end and a little more high end, to cut through better and get rid of the muddyness. I do like the tune though.

 

[Dogman]

Dogman, that's for listening man.

The equipment I have is just the PC and the Fender.

I was thinking the same thing that the lows and highs are a little too much. I have downloaded the BuzComp you had mentioned and I was thinking of super compressing the really low end and the really high end to see how this sounds. Haven't pass the guitar tracks thru that yet. Only becuase Acid doesn't do VST plug-ins so I have to load the wav in FLStudio and use the VST plug-in and then load it back in Acid. So I thought I'd wait until the guitars are done.

Kick louder? OK.
Compress drums? The entire drums track together or individual pieces?

OK, I'm gonna try to keep all this in mind when I continue working on this.

Thanks for listening. I appreciate it.

Drums are tricky, at least for me. I always want a good thump from the kick, and I want it deep. Sometimes hard to get. Guess that will take some experimentation. If you have seperate tracks, that helps. Then, you can get the kick to stand out, and still not take too much space. Give it a narrow band, and tehn you can make it loud. If it's lose, and has a broad span, you will need to keep it in check. And sometimes, it helps to run a multiband over teh stereo drums, just to accentuate the kick a bit, if needed. You can also mellow the cymbals a bit, without affecting the lower end that way. I'm terrible at drums, so all is experimentation for me.

Good start man....

 

[bigbubba]

michael_lifshit - Thanks for listening. I appreciate your comments. Gonna try to remove some low end in the next mix.

Dogman, Teh drums are available as separate tracks and they aren't. I do them in FLStudio so at that time each instrument is individual track. But then I mix it down to one wav and import that into Acid. I could render each track seperately and import that into Acid, but then each track is another file in the project.

So you're pretty much a multiband advocate. I've got to try that on my mixes. I hear sweeping the frequency range also help in bringing out cool things in the mix, although I have no idea how to approach it. I've had people explain it before, but I just never tried it. Someday, eh?


The Growl - Does anyone know how to put the growl in the gits with heavy growls and flanges in the background.?

 

[ido1957]

I like the idea of the hard stuff, then soft mellow stuff. This concept is coming through ok.

The drums sound ok not fake, but I think the bass drum is louder than the snare and needs to come down some, or maybe up the snare. Possibly just need to eq out some of the bottom on the bass drum. And compress the drums overall like Dogman said to even them out.

I think the guitar could use some more gain/distortion from the pre-amp in addition to the cool flange effect. Another guitar track(s) could help to fatten it up - panned to each side....sometimes these heavy metal guitars have about four tracks.

The softer part is pretty much done (other than the kick), it's working well, very nice Spanish feel to it....cool background instrumentation....

Looking forward to hearing your next mix....keep us posted.....

 

[bigbubba]

ido1957 - Thanks for listening.

So based on your and others' input, I'm trying to make the following changes:

Confine the bass to a much tigher band - 40Hz - 70Hz. Rolling off the bass below 40Hz to remove the rumble.

Put the kick in 70Hz - 140Hz range.

Passing the rhythm gits thru the 3 band compressor. Which does remove the low end but makes the guitars sound too bright and to happy dappy. I am looking for more growl here and more low end without entering the bass zone.

I'm trying to figure out the best range for the rhythm guitar and the lead guitar. And to still leave enough space doing the melody part.

I will probably lower the rhythm guitars and double them and panning them hard left and hard right. That way the same track will be coming thru both speakers.

Man, I really like playing 6/4 time.

 

[true-eurt]

Wow bubba, I really like this...I have listened a lot of times...I lost count.

The spanish style lead, is a flavour of Al Stewart.

It also has a blues rocksy feel too.

You have that Emerson/Lake/Palmer feel too with the synth sound.

This is some eclectic feeling stuff. Like a blues rock/prog/spanish grass stuff!!!

I especially like the bass and the guitars have a smooth dirty tone, less the spanish acoustic.

I love hearing deep throaty tones on guitars. I also love the clean, screaming ones too!! Ah hell, I just like the sound of the guitar, period!!!

I could listen to this kind of stuff all day. You can tell I am a 70's gal.

 

[bigbubba]

Wow bubba, I really like this...I have listened a lot of times...I lost count.

The spanish style lead, is a flavour of Al Stewart.

It also has a blues rocksy feel too.

You have that Emerson/Lake/Palmer feel too with the synth sound.

This is some eclectic feeling stuff. Like a blues rock/prog/spanish grass stuff!!!

I especially like the bass and the guitars have a smooth dirty tone, less the spanish acoustic.

I love hearing deep throaty tones on guitars. I also love the clean, screaming ones too!! Ah hell, I just like the sound of the guitar, period!!!

I could listen to this kind of stuff all day. You can tell I am a 70's gal.

true-eurt - thanks for listening. I'm glad you like it.

That's a lot of names you threw around there. I'm just sitting here trying to have a really heavy piece. Now if I can just keep the throaty gits without overstepping the bass, I'd be happy about it.

I'm glad you like my bass that spent so much time worrying about.

So this piece will be complete anyday now.

Thanks again for listening.

 

[true-eurt]

true-eurt - thanks for listening. I'm glad you like it.

That's a lot of names you threw around there. I'm just sitting here trying to have a really heavy piece. Now if I can just keep the throaty gits without overstepping the bass, I'd be happy about it.

I'm glad you like my bass that spent so much time worrying about.

So this piece will be complete anyday now.

Thanks again for listening.

You are welkom bubba!!! I am looking forward to the finished tune!!!

I do like the bass. I am not getting rumbles on my monitors or phones, and my monitors are heavier on the lows than highs. But I do like a lot of bass, and in this song paticular, I think the bass is what pulls it all togather. That is just my opinion.

As far as names of groups go, there is one that I just cannot remember the name, that would really hit it on the head. The mind starts to go at 98 ya know!! You even have some Floydish sounds in there. That is why I used the word eclectic. Although there is flavours of several groups, this is still your sound and that makes it very unique.

True

 

[rayc]

The bass/kick drum has the thwack sound that Sandman period Mulletallica use.
I like the general tone of the piece. The cymbals & bass drum stand out from the mix in my speakers though. Could do with some intergration.
Are some vocals going to visit that dark space some time?
Good work, keep tweaking until you please the Camel Committee or yourself or, if lucky as I have been recently, BOTH!!!!

 

[Gorty]

Hello folks,

I have been working on this lately. Can't figure out how to make it sound more heavy and how to have more growl in the rhythm guitar.

The rhythm guitar is on the preset that gbav recently PM'd me. (Thanks, man! ).

I've Flanged the rhythm guitars quite a bit for the growl but more than this and the guitars starts sounding fake and annoying. Can anyone tell me how to get the gutiars growling like heavy metal growling?

Drums - Sound ok, fake, good?
Bass - Sound ok, fake, good?
Rhythm Gits - Sound ok, or good?
Melody - Anyone like?

As most of you have noticed, I tend to have harsher and softer, chorus and verse, relation in my songs and I tend go for the contrast. Originally the verse was going to be done softer as in metal rock soft. But before even applying any effects, I starting digging the somewhat spanish tone to the verse and decided to keep it unmodified.

Any ideas, critiques, and suggestions welcome.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=419303&songID=3898678

Hey bigbubba,

I love the Spanish style section in your tune there,....very nice!
The guitars in the heavier sections, as Dogman and a few others have mentioned will benefit from rolling off some of the lows and boosting the mids.

You can actually roll of the lows and reduce the mids and increase the highs to achieve a punchy type of brightness to your heavier guitars!

Keep us posted with your progress bigbubba, you are doing well here and I look forward to hearing where you take this!

Gorty

 

[bigbubba]

As far as names of groups go, there is one that I just cannot remember the name, that would really hit it on the head.

Oh just say Guns 'n Roses and be done with it.

The mind starts to go at 98 ya know!!

Well, hoping you got another 90 years to go before you reach that point.

You even have some Floydish sounds in there. That is why I used the word eclectic. Although there is flavours of several groups, this is still your sound and that makes it very unique.

As much as I never like Pink Floyd and Roger Waters and all of his random ramblings, I keep liking their music more now.

Thanks for listening.

 

[bigbubba]

The bass/kick drum has the thwack sound that Sandman period Mulletallica use.
I like the general tone of the piece. The cymbals & bass drum stand out from the mix in my speakers though. Could do with some intergration.
Are some vocals going to visit that dark space some time?
Good work, keep tweaking until you please the Camel Committee or yourself or, if lucky as I have been recently, BOTH!!!!

RayC, thanks for listening.

Ah, Metallica, Enter Sandman, and Metallica's use of Fourth chords. That's probably what sounds familiar.

The cymbals and the kick? It never really jives in my pieces when I use FLStudio. I've got to work on that.

No Vox. I might get over the shyness someday and sing. For now I don't even have a mic.

So what's the Camel Committee? I've heard you mention that before and I thought I already asked but I guess not?

Oh, too bad I have mess with the kick to EQ it out of the bass and rhythm guitar's way. It might still have that precious thwack.

 

[bigbubba]

Hey bigbubba,

I love the Spanish style section in your tune there,....very nice!
The guitars in the heavier sections, as Dogman and a few others have mentioned will benefit from rolling off some of the lows and boosting the mids.

You can actually roll of the lows and reduce the mids and increase the highs to achieve a punchy type of brightness to your heavier guitars!

Keep us posted with your progress bigbubba, you are doing well here and I look forward to hearing where you take this!

Gorty

Gorty, thanks for listening man.
Glad you like the Spanish section which wasn't Spanish at all until I heard it playing back. LOL. Boosting the mids? I'll go give that a shot.

Currently I'm sort of approaching EQ as follows:
200Hz - 400Hz - lower everything by 6-12db.
40-70Hz - Bass
70-140Hz - Kick
Heavy Intro around 2.5kHz
Higher Intro around 640Hz.

You get the picture. No guitars below 500Hz. I'm thinking that it sounds a little better.

Working on finishing the songs first then focusing on tweaking. Otherwise, I'll tweak it pretty good but then lose motivation to finish the song. And probably start another song.

Thanks for listening.

 

[gbav]

Love that opening man, I think its a guitar sound..kinda eerie sounding. You gotta tell me how you got that sound, I personally love it. Rewound a few times to hear the part at :51.. Great playing man. Mix wise on my headphones everything sounds pretty nice, the part at :51 and on especially comes in really clean sounding.

really liked it man
take care
gary

 

[SnakeDog5050]

Cool stuff Bubbadawg!
The rhythm sounds thin, but I actually like how the thinner sound fits this song. It's kind of a haunting, 70s heavy feel. Very cool.
The lead at 0:21 sounds like it could come up in volume some.
Drums sound fine to me.
Love the stop, then acoustic. Great guitar sound there. How'd you get that?
Great moody feel to this, I really enjoy instrumentals like this

 

[bigbubba]

Love that opening man, I think its a guitar sound..kinda eerie sounding. You gotta tell me how you got that sound, I personally love it. Rewound a few times to hear the part at :51.. Great playing man. Mix wise on my headphones everything sounds pretty nice, the part at :51 and on especially comes in really clean sounding.

really liked it man
take care
gary

Gary, thanks for the listen.

The opening has one rhythm, one lower octave melody and one higher octave melody. All are flanged. But the higher octave is Flanged, 'Verbed, Wah'd, and delayed. The eerie ness is probably all the flanging. I can't replicate it in the newer version. I rolled off a good size of the bottom end on the new version to let the bass breathe. And doubled the rhythm with an auxilary track with different tones.

The rhythm and the lead tone is the preset you send me. The Intro melody is also the preset.

The slower part was unintended but now I'm having hard time replicating the feel in the newer version where the verse is played correctly but the feeling is lost in the mechanical-ness of it.

Glad you like it. Thanks.

 

[bigbubba]

Cool stuff Bubbadawg!
The rhythm sounds thin, but I actually like how the thinner sound fits this song. It's kind of a haunting, 70s heavy feel. Very cool.
The lead at 0:21 sounds like it could come up in volume some.
Drums sound fine to me.
Love the stop, then acoustic. Great guitar sound there. How'd you get that?
Great moody feel to this, I really enjoy instrumentals like this

SnakeDog man thanks for listening.

Ok the rhythm is still sounding thin. That's the thing if I try to fatten it up too much low end creeps in and gets into the way of the bass track.

I was thinking of raising the melody at 0:21. Will do. You'll soon get to hear somewhat complete version.

The stop and then acoustic took forever to get the timing right. The final version has three of those so you can imagine how easily I filled my quote of 500 takes per track per song. The for the last verse, I finally used a click track to click in the silence.