New to Recording

[deadandbloated]

Hello! A friend recommended this forum to me with high regards, so I decided to stop in.

(note: I closed my thread in techniques, I suppose it was the wrong forum)

I am looking to begin gathering equipment to start recording and I'd like to put together the ideal setup, which is scalable for future use. I have about $2500 to spend at this point, so I'd like to get the most bang for my buck out of a home studio. I've recorded in numerous studios, but didn't pay attention enough to the process/equipment, I suppose.

Phase one will be primarily drums, then I'll move onto working with guitars and vocals. I will be recording all of the tracks myself, most of the time, so that's a consideration.

So, I've worked in a number of home studios, all of which had terrible latency issues. I spent countless amounts of time recording, adjusting, listening, re-recording, adjusting, and so on. So, minimizing latency would be great.

Here are the two options that I was considering:
1. A nice mixer (Mackie Onyx 1620 or similar), with a firewire card or USB 2.0.
2. An audio interface (Mackie 400F or Motu 828mkII)
(I still have to research the software a bit as well)

Why would one pick one over the other? Is it severely limiting to have less XLR inputs than needed to record the entire kit? Is it safe to assume the firewire devices will output each channel to its own track within the software?

I was thinking about the Shure DMK5752 Drum Microphone Package to get me started with a few cardioids mics and a supercardioid. I own an SM58 for live vocals - I'd assume I can use that for something.

I like the idea of direct-in guitar tracking with some amp modelling, but I'm sure that has its limitations.

General Info
I'll be doing some acoustic tracks, some metal, and some hard rock, and some progressive music.

What I have:
PC - AMD x2 Athalon64 2400, 2gb RAM, XP SP2, crappy SBLive!Platinum Card
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier with a Mesa Cab (4x12)
6pc Tama Superstar
Shure SM58
150 Watt Fender PA/Mixer (low end)
Unfortunately no processors (eq, compression, or otherwise) any more.

So, in your opinion, what would be my best option? Furthermore, am I on the right track?

Thanks in advance.

 

[TimOBrien]

My obligatory standard reply-for-newbies that I keep in Wordpad:

First off, immediately get a good beginner recording book (spend $20 before spending hundred$/thousand$) that shows you what you need to get started and how to hook everything up in your studio:
Home Recording for Musicians by Jeff Strong - $15
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...ce&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
(Wish I'd had that when I started; would have saved me lots of money and time and grief)
You can also pick up this book in most any Borders or Barnes&Noble in the Music Books section!

Another good one is: Recording Guitar and Bass by Huw Price
http://www.amazon.com/Recording-Gui...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215734124&sr=1-1
(I got my copy at a place called Half-Price Books for $6!!)

Barnes&Noble or Borders are great places to start --- they have recording books and you can go get a snack or coffee and read them for FREE! Don't pass by a good recording book --- this is a VERY technical hobby and you REALLY want to start a reference library!!!

Good Newbie guides that also explains all the basics and have good tips:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/page/computermusic?entry=free_beginner_pdfs
http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/

21 Ways To Assemble a Recording Rig: http://www.tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm

Also Good Info: http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm

Other recording books: http://musicbooksplus.com/home-recording-c-31.html

Still using a built-in soundcard?? Unfortunately, those are made with less than $1 worth of chips for beeps, boops and light gaming (not to mention cheapness for the manufacturer) not quality music production.
#1 Rule of Recording: You MUST replace the built-in soundcard.
Here's a good guide and suggestions: http://www.tweakheadz.com/soundcards_for_the_home_studio.htm


Plenty of software around to record for FREE to start out on:

Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net (multi-track with VST support)
Wavosaur: http://www.wavosaur.com/ (a stereo audio file editor with VST support)\
Kristal: http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/
Other freebies and shareware: www.hitsquad.com/smm

Another great option is REAPER at http://www.cockos.com/reaper/ (It's $50 but runs for free until you get guilty enough to pay for it...)
I use Reaper and highly reccomend it...

Music Notation and MIDI recording: Melody Assistant ($25) and Harmony Assistant ($80) have the power of $600 notation packages - http://myriad-online.com
Demo you can try on the website.

And you can go out to any Barnes&Noble or Borders and pick up "Computer Music" magazine - they have a full FREE studio suite in every issue's DVD, including sequencers, plugins and tons of audio samples. (November 2006 they gave away a full copy of SamplitudeV8SE worth $150, November 2007-on the racks Dec in the US- they gave away SamplitudeV9SE. It pays to watch 'em for giveaways...)

 

[deadandbloated]

Thank you for the response!
I will definitely be getting some books (as I've seen them suggested elsewhere too).

One of my problems is that I have some specific questions that I haven't found answered by any of the articles I'd read on tweakheadz or other comparable sites. I've already learned a tremendous amount from reading. I know a marginal amount of most of the basics from pre-amps to phantom power, but some things I haven't yet filtered out.

Why would one go with a pure Audio Interface over a Mixer w/ Firewire Output or vice versa?

The prices seem comparable and from what I've read, popular mixers like the Mackie Onyx don't even use any of the onboard mixer features (EQ, Fade, etc.) when sending the digital channels out of the firewire. So, aside from being really nice for monitoring, I wouldn't know why someone would choose a mixer that they can't use for mixing down, for a home-studio centered (not live) project.

I can find a Mackie Onyx 400F for around the $700 range, which offers me 4 XLR inputs with stock pre-amps, plus 4 additional mics. From what I've found, that seems like a reasonable option. When recording drums, I figured that I could use the 4 XLR inputs for the 2 overheads, kick, and snare, while using the stereo inputs for dynamic mic'ing between toms and perhaps a cross-room ambient mic. The 400F would have the gain control I need for the recording and the "near-zero" latency monitoring seems to review well.

Comparatively, something like the Mackie Onyx 1620 w/ FW o is going to run in the $1200-1300 range. So this would have some additional pre-amped XLR inputs (8), which are nice. However, it still lacks in its inability to send EQd signals to the DAW. For the additional $500-600, I wasn't sure if 4 additional pre-amped XLR inputs were worth it?

Since I'll be tracking alone, would either have a distinct advantage or disadvantage?


2. Regarding the sound card discussion, I am under the impression that any audio interface with Firewire or USB 2.0 would act as a sound card. I just want to clarify!



I have more questions (obviously), but I'll post them after some additional research.

Thanks again!

 

[deadandbloated]

Just bumping to see if anyone has an answer for me. I really want to be clear before I made the investment.

 

[mikeh]

More and more people are getting away from mixing boards and doing eveything "in the box" - and I think if someone is starting out and has not already invested in hardware......going the "in the box" route using software for processing, mixing, etc would be a very logical way to go.

Why have a board??? There can be several logical reasons. As you indicate it can make the monitoring process easier. In my case, I already had a lot of money invested in hardware processors, pre-amps, keyboards, etc. - so having a board to monitor and mix all the MIDI made sense to me. I record all my analog direct into the computer via pre-amps and use my board to monitor. I also do final mixes through my board because I have so many keyboards, MIDI drums, etc.

If you do go the "in the box" route..........you will likely still want to invest in a couple of channels of decent pre-amps........most firewire A/D converters do not provide decent pres