new to drums, new to recording

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ironbutterfly

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Hi there! My husband, who plays al ittle bit of guitar, bought me a set of drums for my fortieth birthday. What a cool husband, huh? I'm having a blast learning to play them, but now he wants to record us just so we can listen back. I looked at a tascam 424, but realized that we might regret that later when friends with bass or keyboards drop by. Neither of us has the first clue about recording! We still remember the little black box with 5 buttons on the front that you used in your ford pinto when you wanted to listen to to tape! Anyway, I now looking at a tascam 464 used, a Samson C01 mic to place above the drums, and 2 audio tech p615 mics for possible vocals. Can any one tell if these sound like sensible choices for just goofing around in the basement. We're not looking to send anything to RCA!!! I've also found some good prices on 4 piece drum mikes, but wouldn't that limit inputs for vocals or keyboards with the tascam 464? Any advice is really appreciated!
Thanks
 
Before I comment fully, how many inputs and Tracks does the Tascam 464 have? And how many track can you record at the sametime?

I have not used the Samson Mics, But I have used the MXL603 as drum overhead Mic's and really like them. They are Condenser Mic's and great as drum overheads and Micing guitars. They also only run about $80 a piece or so and have seen them as Low as $59 on an occasion.
 
The 464 has a total of 12 inputs, with four being mic/line (with XLR and phone jacks) and the rest being four line only stereo pairs (5/6, 7/8, 9/10 & 11/12). If I remember correctly the 464 was one of their top-of-the-line models when it came out. So it should be able to record all four tracks simultaneously.

So, what you could do would be to use the four mic/line channels for the drums (snare, kick, pair of overheads) and then use stereo pre-amps or a sub-mixer to bring the rest of the instruments and vocals in.

Iwana suggested the MXL603S as a good choice for drum overheads, and I think the majority here would concur. However be aware that the 603S is a condensor mic and, therefore, requires phantom power; which the 464 doesn't provide. Not to worry, you can buy stand-alone phantom power supplies easily enough :) Plus most every pre-amp and table-top mixer includes a pps option.

Hope that's of some use :)
 
I am guessing based on what Mark7 replied with that the 464 is a 4-Track machine. And if so My guess is that it is also a cassette based recorded?

If it is the above is correct Ironbutterfly that Iam not sure if you are aware of what Bouncing tracks is but you may want to get knowledgeable about how to do that on the 4 track machine. That way you can record 3 tracks of drums and then bounce them to an open track 4. Once bounced you can use tracks 1 -3 for Guitar or Vocals or whatever.

But personnaly I think the more Mic's you use on your Kit the better the overall sound will be and the more flexibility you wil have to improve the tracks with EQ or Compressors, expanders,or effects. Most important are probably the Snare and Bass Drum. Also look at the Shure SM57, is is about $80 as well, it is a dynamic Mic (no phantom power needed) and is an excellent instrument Mic, and can produce quite good results with a Snare drum.

Keep in mind though that bouncing in the analog (cassette) world loses some of the Fidelity in the sound of the tracks, they are a little mudder I guess you could say.
 
If you're new to drum miking (which, in this case, Mrs Butterfly is) I'd suggest keeping it simple. Start with a single mic (such as the 603S) postioned about two sticks length over the centre of the Snare. Can't get enough Kick? Then place a second mic (a dynamic with a large voice coil, e.g. something like the AKG D112, is usually used for this application) inside the drum, pointing at the area where the beater hits the batterhead (about 3" away to start: note, the distance any mic is from the source can have a pretty substantial effect on the sound produced. So don't be afraid to move it around until it starts to sound good) and then angled about 30 degrees off axis. If you want more Snare then a dynamic with a small voice coil (like the SM57) would be your first choice. Try this about one and a half to two inches above the top of the drum. As far as the number of tracks you use goes, well I personally feel that using three tracks on a Four Track for drums is just a tad extravagant. One should be sufficient, so long as you work at getting a good sound in the first place (you did remember to tune the buggers, didn't you? ;) )

Anyway, that's what's worked for me.

YMMV©
 
LOL, I read that as "My hubby gave me a drumset for my fifteenth birthday." I scrolled down and was wondering why no one commented...then I re-read the post.
 
IronButterfly,
Here's another option: buy an inexpensive mixer with a few nice channels (one of the new Behringer UB series has really nice pre-amps built in), mix your sound as you would like and you can send to your recorder. This leaves you with a set-up with mics that are mixed to your needs (lots of trial and error here, but tape is cheap). I have and use the little Tascam to record over tracks I'm working on. It's a good way to practice tracks and keep a record of your playing, and like I said, tape is cheap,BTW, you only get to use one side of the tape, so a 60 min tape will give you 30 minutes.
Get a good pair of headphones (must have isolation, walkman headphones just won't do)
and practice playing drums to some of your favorite music (feed it into your mixer from you stereo) and record yourself playing along with the music. You'll know that your improving when it sounds like it's two drummers playing the same notes together. You'll know you're really good when it sounds like one drummer playing louder :)
Get a practice pad and practice your rudiments (they're useful) and study with a good drummer if you can. It'll make the job much easier.
And have patience with yourself...remember...this is fun!:)
-Jeff
 
Thanks everyone (especially fatmusiek who made me feel younger for a moment!) I ended up purchasing the Tascam 464. and a Samson C01 mic for drum overheads. I had a cheap little mic sitting around from the days when cars had 8 tracks, and we all had a Radio Shack 5 button tape recorder to carry around. Remember the days? Anyway I put that mic on the kick drum. I did have to buy phantom power for the samson. Oh well. Next problem is that We still haven't a clue what we're doing! We had hoped to play together, but record seperately on two differnt traks so we could fix our screwups later. I thought that we could just plug bruce's guitar into his Fender Princeton 65 amp, then the line out from the amp to line in at the tascam, turn the volumn down on the amp so it doesn't get picked up on the drum mics and adjust volumn at the tascam. That obviously doesn't work. I suspect we're missing some vital piece of equipment that will cost more dinero. Help???!!!
 
Ooops, meant to tell mark 7 that I actually did remember to tune the buggers!! A drummer friend did it for me, then I read up on the subject and redid them. My way sounds better!!
 
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