New Tape Recorders On The Horizon!

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cjacek

cjacek

Analogue Enthusiast
Alright, this may be the news we've all been waiting for .... I just received the following email reply from ATR Magnetics about whether they plan to introduce any open reel multitrack recorders specifically tailored to the home recording crowd:

Yes, with a caveat.

Our mission is to make extremely high quality recording available to the larger recording community; that means analog. We cannot sacrifice the quality for price however, because that would negate the whole point of the endeavor, and in that case you might as well record digitally which is already cheap.

We intend to release new tape recorders that are as inexpensive as they can possibly be. I will say this though: We will never be able to make a new recorder that is as cheap as a multitrack is at this moment. What I am saying is, if you want to set yourself up forever with an analog multitrack buy one right now. I have seen 8-track MM1200’s in nice shape go for $1000! That is just crazy and someday we will laugh at those low prices. Right now it’s not so funny.

While our machines will have many improvements in size, weight, sound (over some models) etc., you just can’t beat today’s tape panic prices.

There you go. Take care,
Carl

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Carl Rusk
Partner
ATR Magnetics​
 
I asked them recently about the model that they remanufacture.
It goes for 15 grand.
A wee bit much for me.
 
Bloodbone said:
I asked them recently about the model that they remanufacture.
It goes for 15 grand.
A wee bit much for me.

From their reply I understand that ATR will have several models available all at different price ranges. I mean it would be silly to just have 15 grand recorders. :confused:

~Daniel
 
Actually,when looking at their pricing,I have a hard time believing that they will be making anything that is affordable for the average guy.I sure hope they do,but I'm not exactly counting on it.
That company appears to me to be geared towards the recording professionals,and not home hobbyists.
We will see,though.
 
Bloodbone said:
That company appears to me to be geared towards the recording professionals,and not home hobbyists.
We will see,though.
That's exactly correct.

State of the art analog has always been expensive to manufacture and as this company seems unwilling to put out less then perfection, I can full-well see why they wouldn't want to get into a rat race of selling to the masses at discount prices.

I'm sure they see their position in the marketplace as one which services the needs of the professional recording industry and as such, they can concentrate on making products which are built to quality of performance standards first and foremost. For the most part, they are artisans and you don't want people like that churning out Chevy Chevettes when they really only know how to make classic Corvettes. :cool:

If you want to hound anyone to make you a deck within reach of the average working stiff like me, and many of you, send those requests off to TASCAM, Fostex and Otari as they've been there and know how to make more affordable open reel gear so long as people are willing to buy it new at normal retail prices just like when they did in the 80's, when you spent three grand on an 8 channel recorder in a retail store...anyone remember what a store looks like these days? :o

Cheers! :)
 
Has anyone actually written a proper letter to TASCAM though ? How would someone in our position get through to them and be taken seriously ? Jeff, you were in the industry so give us some pointers so that we don't do things that only waste time. Give us direction oh mighty Ghost! :D

~Daniel ;)
 
cjacek said:
Has anyone actually written a proper letter to TASCAM though ? How would someone in our position get through to them and be taken seriously ? Jeff, you were in the industry so give us some pointers so that we don't do things that only waste time. Give us direction oh mighty Ghost! :D

~Daniel ;)

The problem is that the digital recorders are so cheap that people buy them in droves. They are really cheap to manufacture, so TASCAM loves it. The last thing is that most people will never know the difference or care.

Analog costs waaay more because of the thousands of parts that must be machined and built in a precise way.

ATR will never be able to build a machine for less than $8,000 (my guess).

They do cater to the pro studios and will always.
 
The Ghost of FM said:
That's exactly correct.

State of the art analog has always been expensive to manufacture and as this company seems unwilling to put out less then perfection, I can full-well see why they wouldn't want to get into a rat race of selling to the masses at discount prices.

I'm sure they see their position in the marketplace as one which services the needs of the professional recording industry and as such, they can concentrate on making products which are built to quality of performance standards first and foremost. For the most part, they are artisans and you don't want people like that churning out Chevy Chevettes when they really only know how to make classic Corvettes. :cool:

If you want to hound anyone to make you a deck within reach of the average working stiff like me, and many of you, send those requests off to TASCAM, Fostex and Otari as they've been there and know how to make more affordable open reel gear so long as people are willing to buy it new at normal retail prices just like when they did in the 80's, when you spent three grand on an 8 channel recorder in a retail store...anyone remember what a store looks like these days? :o

Cheers! :)

The Fostex E16 was a $6000 machine back in 1988. That was not exactly in the cheap range even back then.
 
Why must it be a 16+ track ? Whatever happened to a good 'ol 4 tracker for a couple thousand and for a few more an 8 track ? Why even go beyond 8 ? :confused:

~Daniel
 
cjacek said:
Has anyone actually written a proper letter to TASCAM though ? How would someone in our position get through to them and be taken seriously ? Jeff, you were in the industry so give us some pointers so that we don't do things that only waste time. Give us direction oh mighty Ghost! :D

~Daniel ;)
If you were serious about that, I wouldn't approach them as a singular buyer. I would go to them as an organization of willing consumers with petitions, signatures, actual promises to purchase what you are asking them to tool up, build, distribute and market before they ever see a dime from the public.

If they received real offers to buy they would build them again but, the more realistic picture here is that when the digital option came into being, the public reacted by jumping ship and dumping analog for the cheaper and more edit-friendly world of digital. That's a fact that can't be disputed.

I think the smarter option is instead to keep purchasing up all the analog gear you can that is in decent shape and support the companies that go through the bother of making replacement heads and belt and rollers and other parts that keep these craftsman alive and employed.

We could also do ourselves a big favor buy always trying to buy only new tape stock when the current raft of players start shipping product over the next few months.

I know everyone loves a bargain and I'm no different but we should realize too that when all you are willing to buy as a consumer is the cheapest used item that comes along, we collectively tell our perspective future manufacturers that we really don't want to support them when push comes to shove and in reality, they know this and is why they offer us nothing.

Cheers! :)
 
......."Has anyone actually written a proper letter to TASCAM though ? How would someone in our position get through to them and be taken seriously ? .........
-----------------------------------------------
Letters/polls etc are unnecessary and unproductive in this instance.

I talk to the old-timers at Montebello all the time and since the 70's, I periodically still go over to the factory. Montebello, Japan, and all the other Teac satellites in all the countrires are completely aware of the analog conversations. In regards to Teac/Tascam, the capability, blueprints, parts manufacturing capability etc etc etc are still intact for analog. For the moment, analog production makes no sense..zero...for a company such as Teac.

There are things you have to keep in perspective.........

First and foremost, consider what many of you are paying for your various analog multitrack etc machines through your current pipeline...Ebay and the likes. The mindset is that many of you can pick up a 24 track for a couple of thousand dollars, an automated mixer for a grand, a four track reel to reel for 2-3 hundred dollars.

Ya gotta remember, these are prices for used equipment.

Go back in time and check this out.....I paid almost $3,000 each for my first few Tascam 8-tracks. I paid $16,000 for my new 3700 automated mixer. Then another fifteen thousand for the second one. I paid $11,500 for my first new Tascam 16-track, my 8516. I then paid another $11,000 for my second 16 track, my 8516b. Dealer cost for those 16 track machines was $9,000 each. The cost to manufacture those machines in the 70's/80's was approximately $6,500 each.

I considered buying a new MSr24 in 1992, but I just could not justify paying it's price....$16,000 for a one inch 24 track. I considered going 2" 24 with Tascam's 80 series, but actually felt that I should hold off on any more analog ....because this new digital stuff in 1991-92 was looking r-e-a-l good.

In fact, I had just bought my first digital recorder setup...consisting of a Sony F1 type encoder that utilized a vcr to store the stereo data on vhs tapes (anyone remember those?). I was absolutely blown away over how quiet and perfect my stereo mixes were!. For analog, I already had several sync'd 16 tracks that worked well together so I had yet one more reason to NOT buy the MSr24.

However, in mid 1995, when Montebello decided that all focus was going to shift to DA88 and similar products, they held that nationwide sale designed to BLOW out the remaining new analog stock so that they could shut down analog production. For a few weeks, brand new Msr24's were blown out at $5,000 each.

THAT'S when I bought mine and picked it up over at Montebello. I didn't really need it but boy...five grand compared to 16 grand. I'd NEVER been able to buy a multtrack for such a low price. Tascam took a huge loss on those machines because they basically blew them out at what it cost to make them...in 1995 dollars. But this was coming to the end for them for analog, and they wanted this stuff GONE.

Today...2005..no way would I pay anything near $5,000 for an Msr24. But you know what...it would cost more than that to tool up and build it at the factory.

"Yeah, well shouldn't it cost LESS to make analog recorders in 2005 than 1975?"

Nope.

Even with the advances in microtechnology and circuits, the cost of labor and parts to build a motor driven, magnetic head based, perfectly timed transport that's smoothly moving a thirty pound reel of tape....or a two pound reel of magnetic tape..will be substantially more in 21st century dollars, compared to ebay pricing or pricing of two decades ago. Digital is dirt cheap to produce from a comparitive perspective.

"Yeah, well there are a lot of potential buyers for analog recorders ".

Well...are there ten million potential customers as it was when analog was the only technology? Or is it more like fifty thousand potential customers? Or ten thousand?

Teac Japan is certainly not going to start ramping up production of all the teeny tiny parts needed to build the machines again if the customer numbers make no sense. Or if the customers think new stuff is gonna be priced at Ebay pricing. And right now, the customer numbers for analog make no profit sense in the Teac hierarchy. I know, because I've talked to them about this.

This equipment can not be built for Ebay prices. Non-motor type equipment...digital...can easily be built within smaller price constraints. The only reason digitial equipment..some of it, is so high in price is..well...because it CAN. That's what drives any large company. There is tremendous profit in digital and my guess is that Teac/Tascam is doing better than they ever have with profit margins.

Also...the biggest realization is that most of the people who are loudest about wanting "new" analog stuff are kids. Kids who only have a perception of ebay pricing for this kind of stuff and don't remember the size of the checks that people like me had to fork out for this stuff new. And remember..THIS was consumer pricing type stuff...These five digit checks were being written for what was considered non-professional stuff.

The professional stuff was up in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Which can also be found dirt cheap on Ebay. Parts are another story of course.

A company like Teac weighs all this. Can/will kids or old-timers fork out thousands of dollars for new analog gear. In substantial numbers? The guess at the moment is "no". That Ebay pricing is a real kicker! I could've bought a nice house with all that money I spent with Tascam if I'd only known Ebay was going to be invented twenty years into the future. But that's ok. I got what I needed/wanted when it counted.

Now, the other side of the coin.

You get companies like Atr and the like who announce they are getting into the analog recorder manufacturing biz. Well, first of all, they're a tiny company compared to a behemoth like Teac. They probably source out manufacturing of many of the parts they plan to use. Which is real expensive to do. So my guess is that a company like ATR will have to charge more for these machines than Teac potentially could IF Teac desired to enter the market.

BUT..the entrance of companies like ATR into multitrack manufacturing will be good. Why? Because Teac will watch. ATR might simply bring products to market and manage to turn into a pleasant niche manufacturer.

Alternatively... if the lid blows off the ATR products and fifteen million people around the world are suddenly willing to pay thousands of dollars to companies like ATR for new analog multitrack machines...hey...what do you think Teac will do upon observing this?

If Teac wanted to, they could ramp up in about five minutes. At the moment, they don't need to from any standpoint you pick to look at the situation. Particularly from demand and profit.

But let someone else start getting substantial sales again on analog...just watch what Teac does then. Real fast.
 
Excellent post, BRDTS. :cool:

You and I seem to be on a pretty similar page with regard to why this ain't gonna happen too soon; Lack of market, lack of profit.

I wish ATR Services every success in the world and hope they make so much money that TASCAM gets jealous and wants a piece of the action. In a very real sense, that's exactly what they did in their earlier days too.

Cheers! :)
 
An EXCEPTIONAL post BRDTS! I echo Ghost's comments and agree that it's excellent!

Thank you both for replying. :)

~Daniel
 
Bloodbone said:
I asked them recently about the model that they remanufacture.
It goes for 15 grand.
A wee bit much for me.

But, the good news is that any machines made today guarentees that tape will be made. Also, these machines sooner or later will end up used for much cheaper.
 
I am the kind of guy that was never one for treating his gear like it was a little girl like some people do and i can understand that some need to cause of money concerns but now I am in the middle of a 13 song session with some guys doing an album.
And I find myself cringing every time someone wants to hear something back, just for shits and grins. Cause I dont want to put the wear on my machine.
Its the only thing I have that I am afraid is going to where out or break.
It pisses me off having to feel that way :(
If they would come out with some new machines I wouldnt do that.
I guess maybe as long as there is ebay or some kind of place to pick up another one If I want I shoudnt worry to much.
Its just a pain in th ass to find a descent one.
 
Herm said:
I am the kind of guy that was never one for treating his gear like it was a little girl like some people do and i can understand that some need to cause of money concerns but now I am in the middle of a 13 song session with some guys doing an album.
And I find myself cringing every time someone wants to hear something back, just for shits and grins. Cause I dont want to put the wear on my machine.
Its the only thing I have that I am afraid is going to where out or break.
It pisses me off having to feel that way :(
If they would come out with some new machines I wouldnt do that.
I guess maybe as long as there is ebay or some kind of place to pick up another one If I want I shoudnt worry to much.
Its just a pain in th ass to find a descent one.

My thoughts exactly. If a nice and new, as in currently made, 4 track was available and even if it cost a couple of thou then I'd buy. Personally, I'm so glad I have a nice, if humble, setup now after more than a year of headaches of gathering up all this gear on eBay. Even then I'm extra cautious when handling or working with the gear, for fear of breaking it. How about this: How can waiting for capacitors to go bad be a good thing, emotionally ? How much is peace of mind worth to you, I ask ? Yeah, I'd fork over some bucks for a new machine.

~Daniel
 
acorec said:
But, the good news is that any machines made today guarentees that tape will be made. Also, these machines sooner or later will end up used for much cheaper.

Exactly! :)
 
acorec said:
Also, these machines sooner or later will end up used for much cheaper.

Yes, but that's precisely one of the reasons these machines became extinct - people didn't support the companies but rather preferred to wait and buy second hand or cheap junk from other companies.

~Daniel
 
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