New set for the studio...

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elenore19

elenore19

Slowing becoming un-noob.
[size=+1]EDIT:[/size] Is there a way I can buy a set without the cymbals? So I can buy the cymbals separately?


Original post:

I'm looking into getting a set that sounds great for recording.

I'm not a drummer. So I really don't know what is good and what isn't. One thing is for sure, I want good sounding cymbals.

So I really don't know where to start.

I'm open to any suggestions. I'm thinking a decently full set. Bass drum, 1 or 2 hi toms, 1 floor tom. Snare. Crash Cymbal, Ride, and Hi-hat. And probably for the sake of it...a double pedal.


Anyone have anything in mind?

I'm sort of on a budget. But not too much. Just not the nicest thing out there. Under $2000 would be sweet. But if not, I might be able to work with it.

Thanks!
 
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I'm biased. But I always record on vintage rogers kit. Typically with a mapex birdseye maple snare and all paiste (signature and 2002) cymbals.

You won't be able to get a great set of cymbals AND a good set for under 1k. but moderate price.

You can find a good rogers kit at about 400 or so on the Bay.
My snare can be had for around 300-400 used.
I play 14" paiste 2002 sound edge hats.. roughly 250
20" paiste 2002 ride - 215ish
and a 18" signature fast crash.

how does this all sound? you tell me.



last time I posted this clip, everyone wanted to know how i got the sound.. it's the kit and good mic'n
 
As a general rule of thumb - a maple kit is preferred by most drummers - with birch being a runner up (I personally like birch more than maple for recording).

A decent 5 piece maple or birch kit will cost close to $1,000 (unless you get lucky in the used market).

Good cymbals can cost a lot and there are no shortcuts! A decent set of hats is close to $200, a decent ride will be close to $200 and decent crashes will be at least $100 each (that's about $600 just for cymbals).

If you can get you budget closer to $1,500 or $2,000 you will be in a better position to purchase something that will give you good sound with limited effort (the less expensive the drums/cymbals - the harder to get a good recorded sound).

As a rule, smaller sized drums and cymbals work better for recording (in particular if you don't have a huge, great sounding room). As an example, 10" - 14" toms and maybe a 20" kick can be easier to record than bigger drums. Smaller crash cymbals with a fast decay (14" - 17") can be easier to record than larger cymbals that ring forever.

There are too many companies (each with good gear and some not such good gear) to offer specific recommendations - but you can rearly go wrong with upper line Pearl or Yamaha and certainly DW makes good stuff. For cymbals Zildjian, Sabien and Paiste are condisered the main 3 companies.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Here's what I'm thinking so far.

Seeing as this purchase won't happen for a long time (due to money and me wanting to really find what I really want) my budget can be higher if it really needs to be.

Why not make it $2000. But I'll still look for cheaper.


If I had to choose, I would choose good cymbals over a good set. If I Had to choose that is. Because with my recording experience with drums, the heads can be replaced and what not to sound pretty decent, even if they aren't that nice, but the cymbals, if they don't sound good, then it's impossible to get a good sound recording. At least for me.

So I should be looking for maple or birch sets?

Any suggestions on cymbals?
 
On any but crappy beginner kits, or used lots, cymbals and drums will be sold separately, much like a guitar and amp.

Cymbals are spectacularly personal, any recommendations would be futile. Hie thee to a Guitar Center, and start hitting things. That said, Zildjian A's or Sabian AA's are a standard, and you can find them cheap used. I'd advice used cymbals, so you won't lose much/anything when you sell off the ones that don't work for you. I like a clean, bright cymbal, I have A Custom Hats and splash, Sabian Vault crashes, A 2oo2 ride, and a couple of Zildjian chinas. I wouldn't care for the K or HH seires that so many others love, they are too dark and complex.

Go used on the drums, but spend about 2:3 or more towards the cymbals. Decent drums sound great with good heads and tuning, but nothing can really be done about a cymbal. Those Yamaha Rydeens that everybody was buying are still solid, and should be flooding the used market, I'll bet they go routinely for $300. You could move up to Stage Customs, Tama Starclassic Performers, Pearl BRX or SMX, the good Mapex its, Taye, etc etc etc for maybe 800ish give or take a million, depending on condition, sizes, yadda. Spend the rest on brass, maybe budget in a specific snare too.
 
I play on a no-name set with good skins and I agree, good cymbals are a must. I know this cuz mine sound like trash can lids. :D My kit sounds good tho and as far as a double kick pedal...http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--TAMHP900RSW I snagged these about a year ago and they flat rock. I didn't even need to do any adjustments. Worth checkin into.
My 2c........

edit.....I was gonna mention the Zildjian A Customs....they're on my short list...
 
First off, I'm not a drummer either. That said - I'd suggest taking all of the money and getting the best sounding 5-piece set you can find. Also get a double kick pedal and cymbal stands. Cymbals and drum heads are fragile...and friggin' expensive to replace all the time. So unless you are including a cymbal and drum head charge, you should be making drummers bring all new heads and all their own cymbals in to the studio to record with.

That's how we did things at the first studio I worked at, anyway, and it worked really well for us....and for whatever it's worth: Our kit was some custom-designed DW something or other that the producer/owner designed through their website (he's a drummer....).
 
If you do choose to purchase cymbals (vs.having drummers bring their own) I think the suggestion to look at Zildjian A's or Sabian AA's is right on. I personally use K's and HH's - but for general purpose use A's or AA's should meet most musical applications. Paiste Signature series almost always track well - but Paiste is a little harder to find in stores vs. Zildjian or Sabian. Used can be the way to go if you know what to look for and listen for.

That being said, the idea to have drummers bring their own cymbals is not unreasonable - other than the fact that you may end up trying to record some crap cymbals - I use to sell drums and I was surprised how often people would buy a relatively decent kit (Pearl Exports, etc) and then cheap out on cymbals.

I do a fair amount of sessions as a drummer for hire (not nearly as much as I use to do before samples, etc.) - but anytime I hear that there will be a kit at the studio I always bring my own cymbals, Hi-hat stand, kick pedals, throne and at least a couople of snare drums.
 
Hmm. I see that you're now asking if you can buy the drums seperate from the cymbals. I believe however, that from the beginning that people have recommended buying them seperate anyways?

I still stand on my opinion. Buy a used rogers kit. Records well in any situation.
Cymbals. I agree with what some are saying and disagree with others.

I don't suggest letting people bringing in their cymbals. or making them. It'd be one thing, if you had some, and someone preferred their $3,000 set of of cymbals, but letting people bringing in their shitty cymbals is potential damage to their recording. Some people don't realize how much their cymbals suck ass till they're recorded. So I agree with the people who say spend more money on the cymbals than drums. With good tuning, you can get any decent drum to sound good. Cymbals you can't tune, you mic and deal with their sound.

I stick with my paiste 2002/signature or even heavier traditionals recommendations. clean and cut through a mix better than any cymbal I've recorded. And don't confuse "brightness" for trashy metal clankiness that some zildjians have. Cool for live (i guess.. yuck..), annoying for studio.
 
MadHatterTCM said:
...letting people bringing in their shitty cymbals is potential damage to their recording.
Click to expand...

Well....yea. Don't ever record shitty cymbals. Don't every record shitty anything... I would think this much would go without saying.... Finding a way to get a good sounding instrument in the hands of every musician who comes into your studio is, of course, key to success. In the case that somebody had shitty cymbals, then they could either put down a small deposit and the studio owner would bring his own in, or they could borrow some nice ones from someone they knew. Or they could sweet talk one of the techs into letting them borrow some of their nice cymbals in return for some beer and pizza - do whatever it takes.

This practice never really caused us any issues...we were always able to somehow get every drummer behind a great set of cymbals, without ever taking the financial hit when they broke one (which did happen fairly often).
 
My suggestions are - Pacific FS series kit. all birch shells, in a 5 piece for roughly 5-700 bucks.

Either zildjian A's or sabian AAX or HH. maybe zildjian Z's if you tend to record heavy hitters. go with whatever heads you like but i may suggest the evans EMAD on the bass.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far.

I definitely will look into the Sabian AA cymbals and the Zildjian A series cymbals.

I'm really starting to think about this, and realize that I'm definitely going to buy a set that isn't that nice, and get the fantastic cymbals.

Like everyone set, I can get a pretty good sound out of good heads and tuning. So yeah. I realize that I truly am on a budget, and I remembered that the studio will also be used as a practice spot for a couple local bands, and I don't want to get an extremely nice set only to be hurt by kids.

So I feel I must change my budget to about $700. EXCLUDING cymbals. So $700 for the kit without cymbals and what not. With the cymbals factored in that will definitely be up towards $1500 or so. And that's a lot as it is.

Thanks again for all the information. It really helps me attempt to know what to look for.

ermghoti said:
On any but crappy beginner kits, or used lots, cymbals and drums will be sold separately, much like a guitar and amp.
Click to expand...
So is there a site that has them sold separately? I usually just go through Musiciansfriend, or zzounds. All the sets they sell come with cymbals.

So if you could lead me in the right direction, that would be awesome.
 
I suspect if you look at Musician's Friend (or any music store) - if you purchase a decent kit in the $700 range - you likely are not getting cymbals with it (hardware would be included - but not cymbals). Yamaha, Pearl, Mapex, Pacific, Taye, Tama, Gretch (and a few other companies)- all likely have a kit (with no cymbals) in your $700 price range

Normally, a drum kit that includes "cymbals" are very entry level kits and the cymbals that are offered are likely to be crap.
 
mikeh said:
I suspect if you look at Musician's Friend (or any music store) - if you purchase a decent kit in the $700 range - you likely are not getting cymbals with it (hardware would be included - but not cymbals). Yamaha, Pearl, Mapex, Pacific, Taye, Tama, Gretch (and a few other companies)- all likely have a kit (with no cymbals) in your $700 price range

Normally, a drum kit that includes "cymbals" are very entry level kits and the cymbals that are offered are likely to be crap.
Click to expand...

Awesome, I didn't realize that. I was sort of basing it off of the pictures.

Thanks!

So I found these cymbals.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...ymbal-Pack-With-Free-14-Fast-Crash?sku=490025

Those have the same sound as the Sabian AA cymbals, right?
 
That cymbal package includes Zildjian A's - which would compare to something like Sabian AA's.

I never buy an insrument I can't touch and hear (I don't buy gear on line) - but I think you would probably be pleased with the sound of the cymbals you linked.

Keep in mind - most drum kits come with 2 cymbal stands. I'f you purchase this box set - you will have to buy an additional cymbal stand.
 
mikeh said:
That cymbal package includes Zildjian A's - which would compare to something like Sabian AA's.

I never buy an insrument I can't touch and hear (I don't buy gear on line) - but I think you would probably be pleased with the sound of the cymbals you linked.

Keep in mind - most drum kits come with 2 cymbal stands. I'f you purchase this box set - you will have to buy an additional cymbal stand.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I realized that. So I think I might go with the Sabian AA's, I Have heard a AA crash, and it's amazing. So I'm going to go with them most likely.
 
elenore19 said:
[size=+1]EDIT:[/size] Is there a way I can buy a set without the cymbals? So I can buy the cymbals separately?


Original post:

I'm looking into getting a set that sounds great for recording.

I'm not a drummer. So I really don't know what is good and what isn't. One thing is for sure, I want good sounding cymbals.

So I really don't know where to start.

I'm open to any suggestions. I'm thinking a decently full set. Bass drum, 1 or 2 hi toms, 1 floor tom. Snare. Crash Cymbal, Ride, and Hi-hat. And probably for the sake of it...a double pedal.


Anyone have anything in mind?

I'm sort of on a budget. But not too much. Just not the nicest thing out there. Under $2000 would be sweet. But if not, I might be able to work with it.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
id say definately say you should get zildjan a customs. those cymbals recorded sound amazing. when there hit they ring out so nice. I use at2020's for overhangs and they sound incredible with those cymbals... i couldn't even imagine with a more high quality mic than the 2020's
 
Check out cymbalcellar.com, they have used stuff, and they have clips of each piece, you'll do much better getting the sound you want, cymbals all sound different.

You can get a killer set used for $700...

As for MF, I'm surprised you're only seeing sets with cymbals included, unless you were only searching the cheapest sets.
 
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Taye-RockPro-Fusion-5Piece-Drum-Set-?sku=445548 these are great drums for the price. I played a set of them a couple weekends ago down at a guitar center. Of course you'll want to replace the batter heads at least, but you'll want to do that on any set.

as far as cymbals go, look used. zildjian a's and sabian aa's are great. if you want any effects cymbals look at wuhan. they're cheap and they sound trashy, just like they're supposed to.
 
Hey I just got to know a coupon from Music123, they are offering $15 off $100, $40 off $250 or $100 off $500 sale. I think this can be useful to you.
 
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