New Mics or a new pre?

ReInventor

ReInventor

New member
Hello everyone,

First let me say this is a long post, but I promise all information is relevant and I get to the point eventually - thanks for indulging.

I've been here for a little while now, but haven't really introduced myself. I'm not really new to recording, as I have a degree in Recording Industry Production and Technology from Middle Tennessee State. This by no means implies that I know everything about recording, quite the contrary. I think that I got a good solid foundation in recording theory at school that needs to be supplemented by earned experience. I've actually done more session playing than recording at this point.

Anyway, to my post...

I AM somewhat new to budget home recording. I've had the opportunity to use some really cutting edge gear during my studies and now I'm slowly building my own home studio. Very slowly.

Right now I use a Lexicon I-onix u22. I purchased it because I wanted a simple, inexpensive solution to record my own music. It has dbx pres in it that are supposed to be pretty clean. I also have two mics at the moment - an MXL 2001 and no name dynamic handheld that I use on guitar cabs.

A short word about my musical style: I have a pretty versatile music background and range from moody pop a la non-schizophrenic Radiohead to progressive metal (sorta...). I do mainly a rock band setup with bass, drums, multiple guitars and vocals. I will add keys when the occasion calls for it. I like to have a variety of guitar sounds on any given song, and I like them to be warm and full bodied. Here's where the problem comes in.

I like the sound I'm hearing in the room, but it isn't translating all that well. It sounds sterile to my ears. It isn't bad really, just not great. I'm looking to upgrade and wondering opinions on what to get.

I've got about $300 to spend and was think of either getting a few new mics or a new preamp.

I want some versatility and the ART MPA seems to fit the bill for that price. I like the variable input impedance, and the fact that the tube actually operates at proper voltage. Seems like it might be able to warm up my sterile sound. The other thing I like is the potential ability to get a nice direct bass sound.

I am also open to new microphones instead. I've been looking at MXL simply because of price point, but I don't want to end up with another 2001. The r144 ribbon looks appealing and the few reviews I've found have been good. Plus I can use it for M/S micing. The V67G has reviews as a good warm mic for the price. Also interested in the MXL 4000 for its multipattern feature.

Also considering a new dynamic for the guitar cab - an SM57 or e609 maybe.

What are your opinions? What would you do with 300 bucks? The price isn't really negotiable - I have a baby on the way and that's birthday money for my recording budget!

Thank you everyone.
 
Just my 2c... For $300, I doubt you'll find a stellar improvement in preamps from what you've already got. And, based on the 2 mics you have, I think you'd be better off to spend your cash on a mic(s). Are you looking for something specifically for guitar cabs?
 
Being as those two are all I have, I really need something that can handle everything. I'm willing to spend all 300 on one mic, but it would need to cover vocals, electric and acoustic guitar reasonably well. It would also need to be a somewhat significant improvement over a 200 dollar mic, because then I could have a second as well, such as a 57.
 
I have a somewhat limited mic locker myself, so I cant comment on a bunch of different mics...

But I can say for dynamics for guitar cabinets, I have a Senn e609, an sm57 and an Audix I5. If I had to pick one, it would be the Audix I5 without hesitation.

In the $300~ range, I hear good things about the Audio Technica AT4040. That being a large diaphragm condenser, I dont know how much you'll like that on a guitar cabinet.

Plenty of people around here will have more thoughts on mics... If not try making a thread in the mic forum.
 
if you're making a choice between those two things - I say mics and not preamp, also. I'm a fan of the MPA Gold (I have a Digital MPA), but I also have a MXL 2001, and I think you'd do well to start using something else. How bad do you think the dynamic is?

Also, what type of music / instruments / vocals, etc. are you recording? Without knowing that, I'm speculating (and truthfully would be speculating even with that info), but:

You might be able to get a Shure SM7b used for that budget - these are pretty low output, and so if your current pre/interface is noisy (I don't know the one you mentioned), then this may not be the best choice - otherwise, it might replace both mics pretty well.

The AT4040 is a very nice condenser, in my opinion. Recently on ebay, there was someone selling "B-stock" Blue Baby Bottles for $250 - I picked up one, and I'm liking it so far. They may have more - not sure. You might also be happy with an Oktava MK-319, which fits comfortably in that budget.

On the dynamic side, the I5 is great - for me, a little scooped in the mids sometimes. The SM57 is an old staple, but sometimes it has too much mids. A cheap ribbon can be nice in the place of a standard dynamic, a lot of times.
 
I use a Tech 21 Trademark 60 to pretty good effect for guitars. Round jangly clean sounds, on the verge of solidstate replicated tube breakup (lol). Thick, growly, yet clear overdrive sounds. I sometimes push the amp into higher gain territory as well. Mainly modern rock sounds. I've really liked the guitar sounds on the latest Coheed and Cambria album.

I do all the singing as well...male vocals in the tenor/baritone range. I'm a little breathy at lower volumes, but clear up as I get louder.

Does that help?
 
ReInventor said:
I use a Tech 21 Trademark 60 to pretty good effect for guitars. Round jangly clean sounds, on the verge of solidstate replicated tube breakup (lol). Thick, growly, yet clear overdrive sounds. I sometimes push the amp into higher gain territory as well. Mainly modern rock sounds. I've really liked the guitar sounds on the latest Coheed and Cambria album.
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Yes...good amp solution for any studio.

By all means go and improve the mic situation...the AT4040 reccomended above is a solid reccomendation...the AT4047 is the best mic in that 40 series and I bought one recently in the $300 price range.
 
Personally, I'd save up another few bucks and get a nicer 2 level Mic pre like a Black Lion Audio Auteur or an FMR audio RNP, don't let that $300 burn a hole in your pocket and buy something now that won't make any difference

the pres on any $250 interface are usable but are fairly low gain and will be noisy at the levels you need to drive a nice dynamic mic and won't do a nice condensor any favors either.

generaly, an Ok mic through a good pre sounds way nicer than a nicer mic through a so so pre.
 
Bristol Posse said:
Personally, I'd save up another few bucks and get a nicer 2 level Mic pre like a Black Lion Audio Auteur or an FMR audio RNP, don't let that $300 burn a hole in your pocket and buy something now that won't make any difference

the pres on any $250 interface are usable but are fairly low gain and will be noisy at the levels you need to drive a nice dynamic mic and won't do a nice condensor any favors either.

generaly, an Ok mic through a good pre sounds way nicer than a nicer mic through a so so pre.
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The FMR RNP is probubly the only pre in that price range that is a real improvement over the pres on the interface...but he will allways get a more dramatic improvement from changing mics...especially the MXL2001.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
The FMR RNP is probubly the only pre in that price range that is a real improvement over the pres on the interface...but he will allways get a more dramatic improvement from changing mics...especially the MXL2001.
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Don't rate the Black Lion stuff huh? I have the auteur and the RNP and while they are different, I'd say either at the $450 range is noticeably improved over the pre's on an audio interface and gives any of my mics a whole new lease on life.
 
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Bristol Posse said:
Don't rate the Black Lion stuff huh? I have the auteur and the RNP and while they are different, I'd say either is noticeably improved over the pre's on an audio interface and gives any of my mics a whole new lease on life.
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I cant comment on Black Lion untill I get to hear them...Id like to include the Line6 UX2 since it is the ultimate mic pre solution and its $200.
 
I don't think you have the budget to upgrade your pres significantly. However, there's a ton of stuff you could do for your mic situation. Folks here already know what I will say- buy an AKG C2000B. It is better on vocals, better on acoustic, and a lot better on cabs than anything you have right now. They can be had for $150 on ebay easily, and I found both of mine for under $100 each. Use the other $150 to upgrade your dynamic. Hell, there are bizzillions of cheap alternatives to no-name, a mic so irrelevent you don't even know what it is. Any of the following- Shure SM57, Sennheiser e835 or e845, AKG D770. EV N/D767, Beyerdynamic M300.
Hell, even a Behringer XM8500, a $20 SM58 knockoff, could be an upgrade to your current dynamic. Good luck-Richie
 
Well... I sorta decided on both. I ordered my ART Pro MPA II yesterday, and I'll be getting a microphone sometime in the near future. Possibly a low cost ribbon from Nady. I've heard good things. I may also get the MXL 4000 or similar for the adjustable pattern.
 
ReInventor said:
I have serious doubts that the pres in the ux2 are any better than what I already have.
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The pres in the UX2 are the best you can get untill you have $1000 to spend per channel...you cannot get another Neve 1073 or API 512 clone with that sound for less than that...trust me...IDK why it isnt the toast of this forum.

My very first mic was a Nady...I wouldnt go there again...Richerd gave you lots of better alternitives for the same price.
 
I've done a lot of reading - much more than is represented in this thread. I bought the MPA based on excellent reviews on several forums. Nowhere local carries it, but I ordered it through a local shop so I can try it and return it if it doesn't suit me. Same with the mics. I'm interested in the ribbon for a few reasons. Many have said that budget ribbons are miles ahead of budget condensers. I'll try it out and see. Thanks everyone for the input.

I think when I go to pick up the MPA I'll listen to a ux2 and see what you're raving about. By the way, a pre 23 goes for about 300 bucks and is supposed to be a 1073 clone. Only one channel, but still another option...
 
An UX2 has to be installed onto a computer...it uses the prossessing inside of the computer to model the 6 different pres...but if you heard a Neve 1073...API 512...Avalon 737 then you would know what it could do for you...theres a classic RCA and ultra clean models too.

Its allways a good idea to go ahead and buy an SM58 and use it untill you have $500 ...that is where the really good mics start new...Ive seen a few AT40 series arround $150-200 used on Ebay if you dont mind used.
 
I think you'll like the MPA - you may want to change the tubes. It's actually a pretty quiet preamp, except that if you have noisy tubes, then it's noisy :)
 
Getting new tubes when I pick it up! I'm actually gonna get to audition them in the store. Pretty cool.

Ah...preamp modeling? Completely uninterested. I'm a guitar player, and I've used the toneport stuff, and I've used other amp modeling plugs that I found better, but was still very unimpressed with. I'm not a total purist or anything, but until modeling really catches up with the real deal with algorithms complex enough to capture the details and feel, I'll stick with cheaper but real alternatives.

And I really don't understand the "use a 57 until you can afford so and so..." All due respect to a studio icon...the 57 really sucks at a lot of things. That's not to say that it doesn't excel at others. I like it on a snare and I like it on a guitar cab in some settings, but vocals? Not my vocals anyway. Even my 2001 provides a more satisfactory result. Sure it needs a bit more aggressive de-essing and warming up than the $500 mic you're referring to, but there are inexpensive options for usable sounds without reaching that price point, especially with the mods all over the internet.
 
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