New Beatles track

however, there are other threads about this elsewhere on the internet where people seem genuinely upset though, and just wanted to put it out there that if anyone was "upset" it's not really worth getting "upset" about.
True.
But I think it's about time people "on the internet" {of whom I am one !} kind of grew up a bit.
It is possible to have a really strong opinion, express that opinion in really flowing, colourful language with all the skill, poise and placement of a university professor, appear angry {for dramatic effect} and utilize humour and appear to be critical of the opposing points and think one is absolutely right......and yet, the point being discussed makes not one iota of difference to the opinion holder's day. And then onto the next item to be discussed, where all the people the opinion holder seemed to be railing against become allies !
It's the beauty of human discourse.
Now, I'm not so naive to suppose that there aren't some that take things in an unhealthily personal way or that don't use their words to fire barbs at others. There are. That's why the cave closed down and that's why Prime Time has descended over the last year into a morass of molasses. I'm not saying that we should all be 🌈 rainbows and 🦄 unicorns about everything. There are many areas of disagreement. And I like strong arguments and debates. And I don't even mind if people do get upset about some things, even if I'm not. We can accommodate each other's foibles.
But I still ain't listening to "Now and Then" ! It's no more the Beatles than if they took a phrase Charles Manson uttered in the news in 1970, scaled it onto the multitrack and called it "The Beatles with Charles Manson."
 
It's just music. It's for fun and enjoyment. Regardless of it's origins or how it came about - I think it's good music, a good song. It's good to hear John again. And on something new.
 
I'm sure it's a nice song. To be honest, I have zero interest in ever hearing it.

I am a HUGE Beatles fan. I mean, I have about 20 Beatles posters up on my studio walls, and no other band. So, this is the opposite of Beatles hate. I love them more than any other band

But this is NOT the Beatles to me. This whole "Yoko found a tape of John and we played over it" does not make it a Beatles song.

I'm pretty sure my opinion is very unpopular among Beatles fans, but I'm sorry. I don't consider this song, "Free As a Bird", or "True Love" to be part of Beatles canon. Then again, I'm not interested in "Re-mixes", "Re-masters" or anything else. I want to hear the Beatles the way everyone else heard them at the time they ruled the world. Anything else is just un-interesting to me.

Not trying to be a negative party pooper. Just giving a different view on all this. I know I'm in the minority. It's all good. :)
Not being a huge Beatles fan in the first place, is it possible they performed it but never put it on an album?
 
Not being a huge Beatles fan in the first place, is it possible they performed it but never put it on an album?
Its possible, but that's not what happened. :) Nobody is making a secret of how it came about. It's a cassette tape that John Lennon made that Yoko found, told Paul about it, and they started "finishing" it 1995, then stopped, probably because of the sound quality. Now, with AI, they tackled it again while being able to separate John's voice from the piano that was drowning him out, and added their tracks to it a million years after he died. :D

Even though I have no interest in the song, this short "Making of..." type video is pretty cool:

 
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Not being a huge Beatles fan in the first place, is it possible they performed it but never put it on an album?
It's possible in the same way that it's possible to jump out of the window on the 25th floor of a building and not break a bone when you land on the ground. I mean, technically, under the strangest circumstances, it could happen.
No, it's not possible they performed it. :sneaky:
This is the most written about set of musicians in the history of this planet. Every minutiae of their music has been covered over the last 60 years. It's even been written about where on the necks of their guitars they played their diminished suspended chords. Each one !
Besides, Paul loves to play the part of the keeper of the flame. If it was an old song from the old days, he'd have said so. No way he'd keep that quiet......unless it was really written by his Auntie Jinn.
 
Ok, listened to it. They did a good job.

Tune’s ok. It’s no Eleanor Rigby, or the End, or Get back or, or, but it’s ok.
 
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I definitely think of it as a "Beatles" song. I mean ... other than the time elapsed, it's not all that different to the way they were working by the time they got to the White Album. They were hardly ever all in the studio at the same time during that period. I think it's great, and I loved "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love."

I trust Paul when he says that Lennon would have loved the idea.
 
I trust Paul when he says that Lennon would have loved the idea
I don't.
From the things John said in those few months before he died when he was promoting "Double Fantasy," it was clear that his message to the world regarding Paul was that Paul didn't know him at all in the last few years of his life. Which, basically put, means that he didn't really know him for most of the last half-century. Paul never wanted the Beatles to end, even when they did, but for John, their end was his liberation, in his mind.
 
it's not all that different to the way they were working by the time they got to the White Album. They were hardly ever all in the studio at the same time during that period
Hmmm....
Julia, Blackbird and Wild Honey Pie are the only solo outings recorded during the making of the album. 16 of them involve all 4 and the rest have combinations of them. But not in one instance did any of them work on one of the songs of a Beatle without that Beatle being involved.
George Harrison was largely responsible for abandoning the recording of the song back in the 90s. According to Paul, he thought the song was crap. 🥺 I think he felt uncomfortable about taking the illusion of the Threetles any further.
 
Hmmm....
Julia, Blackbird and Wild Honey Pie are the only solo outings recorded during the making of the album. 16 of them involve all 4 and the rest have combinations of them. But not in one instance did any of them work on one of the songs of a Beatle without that Beatle being involved.
George Harrison was largely responsible for abandoning the recording of the song back in the 90s. According to Paul, he thought the song was crap. 🥺 I think he felt uncomfortable about taking the illusion of the Threetles any further.
Yeah, it's nowhere near the same thing as the White Album. Even comparing the 3 "solo" songs on the White Album with this thing isn't valid. Those songs were written as Beatles songs. John wrote this song for himself. He didn't write it as a Beatle. We don't even know if he was going to finish it and release it.

Adding tracks to a home demo recorded over 40 years ago is not anywhere near the same as the way the Beatles created their magic. Not the same situation, not the same vibe.

It's definitely not part of Beatles canon whatsoever. Neiter are those other 2 below average tunes.

But it's also not worth arguing about. If people enjoy it, awesome. Hopefully this doesn't turn into a typical "Prime Time" thread. In fact, I will not come back into this thread. I can already see where it might be going and I'd rather it turn into a celebration than a debate. But since I can't celebrate it, I'll step away. :)
 
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I'm a huge Beatles fan, and solo Beatles fan.

This is not the Beatles, it's a Lennon song all round. It sounds like something he would of wrote late in the last few years of his life - because it is.

It also has a heavy Jeff Lynne production to it. Which isn't surprising as he was involved in 'Free as a bird', 'Real Love', and 'Now and Then'. It has similarities to George Harrison's 'When We Was Fab' (Lynne as producer, again) - to me at least. Jeff Lynne is an amazing talent, and I like a lot of his material. Not sure where the line is between it being a Beatles / Lennon song, or a re-fabrication with Lynne's heavy influence and reinterpretation? John Lynnon?

Whatever the case, it's a mediocre Lennon song. It is no 'Watching the Wheels' or 'Imagine', and certainly isn't a Beatles song, by any stretch. IMO.
 
It might have the Beatles on it, but it doesn't really sound like a Beatles song. Free as a Bird sounds more like what John might have done with the Beatles. Even Real Love sounds like something he would have done in the later years.

This doesn't have a "Beatles" feel to me.

It's "OK" as a song, not really great. I guess from a historical perspective, it's important. So it's only got 4 million streams on Youtube in 13 hours... not very successful. :oops:

OK, maybe it will be..
 
Hm, a lot has already been said.

I didn't think I would much care for it. It's kind of touching.,..I guess more in a sentimental kind of way, more so than in a Beatles way. From double fantasy on it's kind of hard to not consider John's death, how it occured. And when. Where John was n his life, the contrast of the heavy bell opening in Mother, to the lite triangle opening in Starting Over. I went from being a huge John fan(atic) when younger to being pretty critical of John in my later years. No doubt he could at times be pretty critical of himself. Fame. It must('ve) been hard living up to being Elvis, Michael Jackson.....John Lennon. Anyway...

His vocal is pretty on key for just doodling around making a demo. Then again he was always pretty good at double tracking a vocal. I'm not s big fan of the type of lyric content....iffa you ever leava me I'ma gonna justa die...John was prone to writing after, you know, her. I don't know when any Paul harmony vocal was recorded, but his voice isn't what it used to be. Hey, we all get old. Personally, I don't care to hear an 80(?) year old Paul with a below 40 year old John. We recorded a George type slide break?....no, not working for me. The strings sound interesting.

I didn't much care for it's real love, or whatever, but really enjoyed Free As a Bird. In fact I loved it, the song and video....in a Beatles kind of way. This one? I'll likely give it a listen, out of curiosity. But it'll have little to do with The Beatles. Not my intention to be too negative. To each their own and if you enjoy it that's great. I hope you do enjoy it, can't say for sure and wouldn't want to even speculate, but perhaps John would've liked that.
 
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Hmmm....
Julia, Blackbird and Wild Honey Pie are the only solo outings recorded during the making of the album. 16 of them involve all 4 and the rest have combinations of them. But not in one instance did any of them work on one of the songs of a Beatle without that Beatle being involved.
George Harrison was largely responsible for abandoning the recording of the song back in the 90s. According to Paul, he thought the song was crap. 🥺 I think he felt uncomfortable about taking the illusion of the Threetles any further.
I wasn't talking about solo outings on the album. I was saying that, by then (according to everything I've read on them), they weren't working in the studio together as a band much anymore. They were treating other members more like session musicians, where they would each come in on their own and record their contributions on the other's songs. So, it's not really all that different to that, IMHO. (This could be wrong, of course, but that's what I've read.)

Regarding what Lennon said about Paul not knowing him ... to each his own I guess. I personally take just about everything John says with pounds of salt, given his penchant for avoiding straight answers, always trying to be witty or clever, be controversial, stir things up, etc. And this is coming from someone who named our son Lennon. I love his work, but he's probably the last band member I would go to for any factual information about things.

At any rate, this is all subjective. I like the new song. I like the two songs from the 90s. Other people don't. To each their own.

I think the idea that this is (or that was in the 90s) just a publicity or money-grabbing stunt is pretty laughable. They all have/had more money than God, so why would they bother with that? And they've all had quite their share of publicity as well (and still do), I'd say. 😉 Anyway, that's just my two cents.
 
For what it's worth, I sent the link to this Beatles song to my father. He later told me that he "didn't much care for that new John Lennon song"... ;)
I still think it's cool. The process. The story. The song felt touching in a sad sort of way. I'm glad they kept at it. I'm looking more and more at my own mortality lately and have so many unfinished songs and ideas... that I could only hope that my partner in music would be as dedicated and interested to continue and try to finish some of the things that I might not be able to finish myself before I left the earth.
 
I think the idea that this is (or that was in the 90s) just a publicity or money-grabbing stunt is pretty laughable
I'm completely with you on that. If it was a money-grabbing thing, it would be the record company, not the actual members.
That said, even at the height of their powers {and it is rarely talked about just how considerable those powers were as the 1960s progressed}, the Beatles didn't just release an album and think "We're the Beatles; it'll sell millions." They would get in touch with the Stones and other competitors and ascertain whether or not the competition had any new releases about to come out and they would deliberately avoid each other's work so sales wouldn't be compromised. One thing I always liked about the Beatles was that although they could be arrogant and bossy and lord it over their entourage, they were actually quite humble, naive and very ordinary guys {which explains why Apple was a disaster}. They wanted to make money and part of that was maximizing sales; don't release an album if Dylan and the Stones are slated to do so in the same week ! The other part of that was to give the buyers the ultimate in quality product, songs, album covers, great mono and stereo mixes......gotta love their ethos.
Regarding what Lennon said about Paul not knowing him ... to each his own I guess. I personally take just about everything John says with pounds of salt, given his penchant for avoiding straight answers, always trying to be witty or clever, be controversial, stir things up, etc
I agree. I found John to be something of an excuse-making hypocrite much of the time. He blamed everyone else for his personal failings rather than take responsibility. So it was the fault of advertisers in the '50s that he was a lifelong smoker, it was the fault of the London swinger {their dentist} that he became soft on acid, it was George, Paul and their entourage that were to blame for his heroin addiction; when he was writing all those songs about gimme some truth, the hypocrites in the songs could easily have been him.
He long seemed to have issues with Paul, stemming back to at least the recording of "Rubber Soul" where the engineer, Norman Smith, noticed considerable friction between the two. And after the break-up, he took as many opportunities to take pot-shots at Paul as he could. In song, in interview, even in album covers1699029918076.png
Not that Paul was altogether innocent in the early days of the break-up
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But arguably, he was reacting to all the anti-Paul stuff in the press from John and George. John felt that Paul took over the band but refused to acknowledge that he was on the way to becoming an acid-casualty and that someone needed to keep the guys working. If left to their own devices, John and George were basically lazy.
Thing is though, John was consistent in his moving away from Paul throughout those 10 years and he even said that he told Paul to stop just turning up in New York and dropping in unannounced at his house, that this wasn't Liverpool in the '50s anymore. Lennon's thing was that he moved in a different direction from the Beatles after '69, whereas Paul still wanted that and that's why John could feel, with some justification, that Paul didn't really know him. Paul's actions showed that he didn't really know him any longer.
Whenever I hear Paul talking about John in a sort of present tense, I flick my eyebrows and say "meh."
I love his work, but he's probably the last band member I would go to for any factual information about things.
It depends on the factual information. I mean, he couldn't even remember the name of Revolver in 1970. But he remembered its cover.
And whether reasonable or not, I would utterly trust Lennon's assessment of his own feelings at any given point. The content may not be nice, but it's the reality of the feeling that matters.
at any rate, this is all subjective. I like the new song. I like the two songs from the 90s. Other people don't. To each their own.
I completely agree. I enjoy the swapping of views. I like reading what those who agree with some of my points say, I enjoy what those with a totally different or opposing point say.

I wasn't talking about solo outings on the album
I know. But I was trying to show that there is no straightforward reading of the recording of the White Album. There are all kinds of scenarios in there. And many of the greatest songs on that album are the ones where all four are playing, or were playing and maybe one got taken off and replaced by an instrument at a later date. Even a song like "Back in the USSR" in which we all know Paul, George and John played the drums because Ringo had left the band, had Ringo playing it until he did quit. So the notion of them working separately, when one takes into account the Esher demos, falls flat the more one reads about the making of the album.
It's significant that the album started off being recorded on 4-track then moved to 8-track once they discovered that EMI had a new 8-track that was being tested. And because they decided to make it a double album, it meant that there were sometimes 2 or 3 studios being used at the same time.

I was saying that, by then (according to everything I've read on them), they weren't working in the studio together as a band much anymore
Well....
It's nuanced. It had been happening in increasing measure since "Help !" in 1965 with "Yesterday" and "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away." Revolver and Pepper between them had a number of tracks in which the whole band wasn't involved. Much of this had nothing to do with friction and rancour ~ it had everything to do with the expanded musical palettes of Lennon, McCartney and Harrison. They were less of a two-guitar, bass and drums band and looked to explore what instruments could optimize a song. That was the case long before they started falling out. In the Beatles' official biography, George complains that the band had not played whole songs in the studio since they stopped touring. But this was because of the nature of their overdubbing, not because they weren't working as a band. The White album sessions did introduce a "hands-off my song" attitude that hadn't been there before.
The interesting thing is those solo excursions all but stopped after the White album. A particular Beatle might carry on the work on his own, after the band had laid down the tracks, but the last 2 Beatle albums saw more joint playing than the previous 3.
They were treating other members more like session musicians, where they would each come in on their own and record their contributions on the other's songs
When Mark Lewisohn's "The Beatles in the Recording Studio" came out around '92, Ian McDonald's "Revolution in the Head" came out in '94 and Barry Miles' "Many Years from Now" came out in '97, that effectively put an end to the myth of the Beatles as their own session men during the White album sessions. John was the one that started putting that stuff about in 1970 after he'd left the band and was angrily vilifying everyone and every aspect of their success. He was, by his own admission, "out of his head" either with heroin or primal scream therapy at the time and he spent quite a while apologizing to people in the years after due to what he'd said.
If George Harrison was around, one could ask if John and Paul acted as his session men. Had they done so, he wouldn't have needed to bring in Eric Clapton. John wasn't being a session man when he crashed the piano notes at the start of Obladi-Oblada.
One only has to read Lewisohn's "Sessions" and look at some of the studio documentation to see a very different picture emerge.
We often elevate the Beatles to the status of flawless gods and assume that everything they said at every time was correct, factual and accurate. I learned a long time ago that that was not so and they were fallible just like the rest of us. And talked a lot of bullshit at times. They were Scousers !
It was a period where a lot of change was happening and rancour had set in. Yet there is a tremendous amount of joint enterprise on that album.
This could be wrong, of course, but that's what I've read
One of the benefits of being the most interviewed group of people ever {ha ha, I exaggerate just a little....} is that there are so many words from them that one can peruse and take in. And draw one's conclusions.
 

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