Neil Peart

[PhilGood]

Could have something to do with Rush's inability to garner a new fan base. The last Rush concert I went to was in the late 80's. I would imagine that the average age of Rush's fan base has increased over time. So it makes sense that a Rush concert in the late 90's to now would largely be attended by 30-40 year old musically stagnated white males. Most of whom are probably either plumbers, programmers or cops.

I bet that if one were to survey the 30-40 year old white males who attend Rush concerts about their knowledge of music one would find a deep ignorance of anything other than Prog Rock and Classic Rock from the late 60's to the mid 90's. They would, however, score very high in their ability to air-drum verbatim to just about every song performed that evening.

I would be one 41 year old who would shoot complete holes in your theory. The last concert I saw was Van Halen. Before that, Rush. Before that, my current favorite band: My Chemical Romance. I listen to KROQ in L.A. and know some of the best drummers in the world.

And I think you're full of hot air.

 

[Supercreep]

Show me a girl who likes Rush and I'll show you a girl who is in a relationship with a guy who likes Rush.

There’s room for you too in our support group. But like everyone else, rigorous honesty is a requirement. You’ll eventually come to accept Neil as an ok drummer, Rush as an OK band and move on to more interesting things. You have the courage deep inside. Do you have the will to make the leap?

/shrugs/

Look up pedantic, webster.

I'll let the bands modest success speak for itself. Perhaps, having few successes of your own to be proud of, you poke holes in other people's clouds instead. Why do you do that?

Nobody you're talking to said NEP was anything but a competent rock drummer.. NP, to my knowledge, has never said anything except self-deprecating comments about his own abilities.

So what do you have to prove?


I smell a jazz snob.

 

[Supercreep]

And I think you're full of hot air.

I think you're being kind.

 

[drumzealot]

I would be one 41 year old who would shoot complete holes in your theory. The last concert I saw was Van Halen. Before that, Rush. Before that, my current favorite band: My Chemical Romance. I listen to KROQ in L.A. and know some of the best drummers in the world.

And I think you're full of hot air.

Well, you are a refreshing breath of fresh air.

 

[drumzealot]

/shrugs/

Look up pedantic, webster.

I'll let the bands modest success speak for itself. Perhaps, having few successes of your own to be proud of, you poke holes in other people's clouds instead. Why do you do that?

Nobody you're talking to said NEP was anything but a competent rock drummer.. NP, to my knowledge, has never said anything except self-deprecating comments about his own abilities.

So what do you have to prove?


I smell a jazz snob.

Keep pursuing the “I’m irrational” route rather than the personal. And note the lack of personal insults in my posts.
I do love jazz and most my income has comes from playing it. But I love many types of music, I even like Rush, a little. And the thread rates NP to be God, much more then a competent drummer. Which is too bad really. Comparatively speaking, there are so many other more interesting things going on in music.

 

[Supercreep]

In my opinion, anyone over the age of 30 that is still a huge Rush fan has become complacent in their growth as a musician.

Lol, the poll is ridiculous, that's why I didn't vote in it.



You are the one that came into this thread casting stones, Mr. Zealot. I'm a big rush fan, and I disagree with your opinion about my growth as a musician.

 

[drumzealot]

Lol, the poll is ridiculous, that's why I didn't vote in it.



You are the one that came into this thread casting stones, Mr. Zealot. I'm a big rush fan, and I disagree with your opinion about my growth as a musician.

Casting stones yes, but at an idea not a specific individual. I love a lively debate. Just keep it civil: focus on ideas and music rather than individuals and personalities. I certainly did not indent to be insulting and I apologize if anyone felt that way. My comments are really aimed at the notion that Neil Peart is the be all and end all of drumming. This notion is probably a result of a lack of exposure to other things, cuz relatively speaking, there's a ton of great, better stuff going on. Better in terms of groove and in terms of being able to improvise. Neil Peart is great in terms of discipline, hard work and meticulous arrangements. While those are goods things, they are typically building blocks that eventually assume less attention than other aspects of music (like groove and improvisation).

All I'm saying is, Neil Peart God? Really? Have you explored other things?
My theory is that those who actually believe NP is a God-like figure probably have limited exposure to other things. How else could somebody honestly believe that? And the people I’ve met who believe that are not familiar with much other than a narrow exposure to music. When I was a NP fanatic I certainly had a limited appreciation for other things. Appreciation for other things always results in a better-informed assessment.

Most musicians seem to progress along similar lines:
an initial love of music
building basic skills
building intermediate skills (focusing on technique, discipline, chops and head knowledge)
building advanced skills (going beyond the technical and toward the visceral, starting to value taste over chops)
The Middle Aged Years (finding oneself drawn back to the simple things, technique is viewed as a means to an end: artistic emotional expression)
Statesman status

Neil Peart’s playing rests somewhere around the 4th stage.

 

[Supercreep]

Casting stones yes, but at an idea not a specific individual. I love a lively debate. Just keep it civil: focus on ideas and music rather than individuals and personalities. I certainly did not indent to be insulting and I apologize if anyone felt that way. My comments are really aimed at the notion that Neil Peart is the be all and end all of drumming. This notion is probably a result of a lack of exposure to other things, cuz relatively speaking, there's a ton of great, better stuff going on. Better in terms of groove and in terms of being able to improvise. Neil Peart is great in terms of discipline, hard work and meticulous arrangements. While those are goods things, they are typically building blocks that eventually assume less attention than other aspects of music (like groove and improvisation).

All I'm saying is, Neil Peart God? Really? Have you explored other things?
My theory is that those who actually believe NP is a God-like figure probably have limited exposure to other things. How else could somebody honestly believe that? And the people I’ve met who believe that are not familiar with much other than a narrow exposure to music. When I was a NP fanatic I certainly had a limited appreciation for other things. Appreciation for other things always results in a better-informed assessment.

Most musicians seem to progress along similar lines:
an initial love of music
building basic skills
building intermediate skills (focusing on technique, discipline, chops and head knowledge)
building advanced skills (going beyond the technical and toward the visceral, starting to value taste over chops)
The Middle Aged Years (finding oneself drawn back to the simple things, technique is viewed as a means to an end: artistic emotional expression)
Statesman status

Neil Peart’s playing rests somewhere around the 4th stage.

You didn't look up pedantic, did you?


I didn't vote in the poll; I dont' think NP is God, Incanus doesn't think so, and NP doesn't think so.

In fact, you specifically directed your comment at people that are rush fans, not people who think NP is God, or the best drummer etc.



Now you're soft-pedaling away from your original remark.

Take some of your own advice so that you may achieve a better-informed assessment.

Saying "I apologize if.." is not an apology where I come from.

 

[drumzealot]

You didn't look up pedantic, did you?


I didn't vote in the poll; I dont' think NP is God, Incanus doesn't think so, and NP doesn't think so.:

Then my comments don't apply to you. And we probably agree on this issue.

Now you're soft-pedaling away from your original remark.

More like clarifying my intent.

You seem pretty committed to playing the role of adversary, so I guess I'll give up on finding a common ground or explaining my intentions. Again, if I offended I apologize. That was not my intent. If that’s not an apology where you come from then perhaps you should relocate.

You cower from substantive debate over real issues and resort to attacks of a personal nature (the pedantic). Lighten up. This is not personal. We are talking about opinions about music. My opinion is founded on observation and deduction. If you’d like to debate the merit of that opinion then I’d be into that. Maybe I’m wrong. If you want to continue with adolescent name calling and pedantic side issues then I’m not.

 

[Supercreep]

Again, if I offended I apologize. That was not my intent. If that’s not an apology where you come from then perhaps you should relocate.

For your elucidation, my being offended is not a hypothetical event. There is no need for you to append "if" to your statement, as if there is a chance that a reasonable person should not take issue with your general indictment of Rush fans.

You did offend, and you remain stubbornly cavalier about it.

Some rep for you.

 

[Supercreep]

You cower from substantive debate over real issues and resort to attacks of a personal nature (the pedantic). Lighten up. This is not personal. We are talking about opinions about music. My opinion is founded on observation and deduction. If you’d like to debate the merit of that opinion then I’d be into that. Maybe I’m wrong. If you want to continue with adolescent name calling and pedantic side issues then I’m not.

You accuse me of simultaneously cowering and attacking. Which?

What substantive debate can be had over your ill-informed opinion? What "real issues" are you addressing? WTF are you smoking?

You made a disparaging statement about a great swath of people, and now act like it was a scholarly excercise.

I am aware that dullards and simpletons are entitled to their quaint opinions.

/pats drumzealot on the head/

Now go out and play. All this grownup talk must be making your head hurt.

 

[drumzealot]

For your elucidation, my being offended is not a hypothetical event. There is no need for you to append "if" to your statement, as if there is a chance that a reasonable person should not take issue with your general indictment of Rush fans.

You did offend, and you remain stubbornly cavalier about it.

Some rep for you.

Last post about this.

What I said was:
In my opinion, anyone over the age of 30 that is still a huge Rush fan has become complacent in their growth as a musician.
Most of the avid Rush fans I know are not well versed in anything other than rock music from the late 60’s to the mid 90’s.

I then clarified that I was referring to those who believe Neil Peart is a God-like figure (the very subject of this thread). If you count yourself among the ranks of huge and avid Rush fans who hold NP up as some sort of deity, then I guess you have reason to be offended to which I offered an apology. I won't and wouldn’t expect you to grovel. At this point you can either move on or continue to do what you’re doing.

The fact is you’ve launched personal attacks of a far more offensive nature and I have not whined about it other than pointing out that it is there. Read through your posts. They are all adversarial, highly offensive, and purposefully insulting. You side step issues and attack people on a personal level. You do this all the time. Why do you do that? You'll find such attacks absent from my posts. If you were the recipient of such personal attacks you would be whining a lot louder than you are now.

 

[Supercreep]

Last post about this..

We can only hope...

What I said was:
In my opinion, anyone over the age of 30 that is still a huge Rush fan has become complacent in their growth as a musician.
Most of the avid Rush fans I know are not well versed in anything other than rock music from the late 60’s to the mid 90’s..

I then clarified that I was referring to those who believe Neil Peart is a God-like figure (the very subject of this thread). If you count yourself among the ranks of huge and avid Rush fans who hold NP up as some sort of deity, then I guess you have reason to be offended to which I offered an apology. I won't and wouldn’t expect you to grovel. At this point you can either move on or continue to do what you’re doing. .

No, you did not clarify your original statements, you just made different ones - and only after people started pushing back.

How about these gems:

Could have something to do with Rush's inability to garner a new fan base. The last Rush concert I went to was in the late 80's. I would imagine that the average age of Rush's fan base has increased over time. So it makes sense that a Rush concert in the late 90's to now would largely be attended by 30-40 year old musically stagnated white males. Most of whom are probably either plumbers, programmers or cops.

I bet that if one were to survey the 30-40 year old white males who attend Rush concerts about their knowledge of music one would find a deep ignorance of anything other than Prog Rock and Classic Rock from the late 60's to the mid 90's. They would, however, score very high in their ability to air-drum verbatim to just about every song performed that evening. .

Which is also chock full of bullshit and insulting to boot, and then:

Show me a girl who likes Rush and I'll show you a girl who is in a relationship with a guy who likes Rush..

Meaning that my wife pretends to like a band because I do. Which, were it to be true, is saying quite a mouthful. Do you see how that might want to make somebody squeeze your neck a little bit?

The fact is you’ve launched personal attacks of a far more offensive nature and I have not whined about it other than pointing out that it is there. Read through your posts. They are all adversarial, highly offensive, and purposefully insulting. You side step issues and attack people on a personal level. You do this all the time. Why do you do that? You'll find such attacks absent from my posts. If you were the recipient of such personal attacks you would be whining a lot louder than you are now.

In my view, you are getting back what you're putting in. How do you like it?

 

[Incanus]

You're a real piece of work Mr. Zealot. If you would like credit for not 'insulting' an individual, but more like 100,000 people all at once, then that's exactly how I'll credit you.

You explicitly and clearly stated that all Rush fans over the age of 30 have become complacent in their musical growth. This is not an opinion. This is an untrue statement.

I don't care if you, or anyone else, likes or hates Rush, or any other band. Fine. Listen to whatever you want. I'll do the same.

I would never dream of starting a sentence like, "all jazz fans. . ." because whatever followed couldn't possibly be true.

When I read your first post in this thread I was personally insulted, whether that was your intention or no. And that's what I was responding to in kind.

Understand?

 

[Supercreep]

pwned again by Incanus.

 

[Rimshot]

Yikes!

I am 55 years old. I am a bit of a Rush fan although there are just so many types of music I like. I am a Hard Bop and Bop and Blues drummer. I play Middle-Eastern music (primarily arabic but also Turkish and Balkan). I am the lead djembe player in a West African dance company and have training and expertise on most of the Melinke music. I play percussion for Indian Kirtans. I grew up in a home where my mother was a colluraturra and I was trained in piano, brass and violin, but found my comfortable home in percussion.
I have been a card carrying AFM member since 1969 and have played all sorts of music including a lot of pit work (which I hate).
My taste in listening is Jazz of course, Rock, Classical, Baroque, Renaissance and Medieval music, Arabic, Turkish and all Balkan music, West African traditional music, Indian "classical" and sacred music, R & B, Blues, Chorale music, Progressive Rock and Progressive and Fusion Jazz, ........ hell, I like listening to just about everything except Rap and Hip Hop and Country Western music (not that there is anything horrible about it, it's just not my taste).
I am a Rush fan and I'm a relatively knowledgeable and well trained "old fart", so........?

 

[Supercreep]

I am 55 years old. I am a bit of a Rush fan although there are just so many types of music I like. I am a Hard Bop and Bop and Blues drummer. I play Middle-Eastern music (primarily arabic but also Turkish and Balkan). I am the lead djembe player in a West African dance company and have training and expertise on most of the Melinke music. I play percussion for Indian Kirtans. I grew up in a home where my mother was a colluraturra and I was trained in piano, brass and violin, but found my comfortable home in percussion.
I have been a card carrying AFM member since 1969 and have played all sorts of music including a lot of pit work (which I hate).
My taste in listening is Jazz of course, Rock, Classical, Baroque, Renaissance and Medieval music, Arabic, Turkish and all Balkan music, West African traditional music, Indian "classical" and sacred music, R & B, Blues, Chorale music, Progressive Rock and Progressive and Fusion Jazz, ........ hell, I like listening to just about everything except Rap and Hip Hop and Country Western music (not that there is anything horrible about it, it's just not my taste).
I am a Rush fan and I'm a relatively knowledgeable and well trained "old fart", so........?

Cool. Do you do much pop/rock stuff?

 

[mwthompson]

I am 55 years old. I am a bit of a Rush fan although there are just so many types of music I like. I am a Hard Bop and Bop and Blues drummer. I play Middle-Eastern music (primarily arabic but also Turkish and Balkan). I am the lead djembe player in a West African dance company and have training and expertise on most of the Melinke music. I play percussion for Indian Kirtans. I grew up in a home where my mother was a colluraturra and I was trained in piano, brass and violin, but found my comfortable home in percussion.
I have been a card carrying AFM member since 1969 and have played all sorts of music including a lot of pit work (which I hate).
My taste in listening is Jazz of course, Rock, Classical, Baroque, Renaissance and Medieval music, Arabic, Turkish and all Balkan music, West African traditional music, Indian "classical" and sacred music, R & B, Blues, Chorale music, Progressive Rock and Progressive and Fusion Jazz, ........ hell, I like listening to just about everything except Rap and Hip Hop and Country Western music (not that there is anything horrible about it, it's just not my taste).
I am a Rush fan and I'm a relatively knowledgeable and well trained "old fart", so........?

My gawd. How musically complacent can you get?!?

Sheesh, you Rush fans are all alike...

 

[Incanus]

My gawd. How musically complacent can you get?!?

Sheesh, you Rush fans are all alike...

Well, apparently it doesn't matter what you play or listen too. If you're a Rush fan at all, you're complacent. Period.

No exceptions. No excuses.

 

[Rimshot]

OMG you just can't win with these little dweebs!

One person is accusing Rush fans of being underdeveloped musically and the other is accusing this Rush fan for being too knowledgeable and proud of it.
Oh well, be happy with yourselves.