Need lot of Help. Cant get Pro Quality Sound

[tonyA]

What exactly do you mean by "Professional sound"?

How is your sound different from the standard you made for your recordings?

If your recordings are "clean", maybe all you need is mastering or pre-mastering.

To find out, try to compress your piece. Experiment with the settings, see if you come close to that professional sound. If not, take heed to all the advise they are giving here for you.

Variables for the sound?

1. The player
2. The instrument
3. The pickup (mic'd or otherwise) -the mic
4. The Mixer (and your eq settings)
5. The effects (and their settings)
6. Your recorder
7. Your monitors

If you know you got a good player, then it could be the........and so on......


.

 

[47ronin]

i think this is like the second time i have seen this on this board but The Verve and The Verve Pipe are not related in any way!!! i really was a fan of the old Verve stuff so to hear them in the same sentence as shit like the verve pipe is just painful. Please!

47ronin

 

[Han]

Tony Stoc didn't come back to collect any help, did we scare him?

 

[version2]

Tony Stoc didn't come back to collect any help, did we scare him?

Probably so.

 

[stoctony]

Hey guys sorry for the delay. You didnt scare me at all. This is exactly what I was looking for. I was gone this weekend. Thanks for all your help. I am using Adobe Audition. The compressor comment was what i was interested in. What are some other tools that I may have in my bag. You know, what are some common effects for pro sound. Not talking about reverb and all that stuff. You know what I mean? Againg thanks for all the great help even though I havnt had a chance to try them out. Also I know i am gonna get in trouble for this one, but, how important are monitors. EEEEEEK I know, come on let me have it.

 

[vestast]

Also I know i am gonna get in trouble for this one, but, how important are monitors. EEEEEEK I know, come on let me have it.

Sounds like you already know the answer to that one !

 

[chessrock]

You know, what are some common effects for pro sound.

Uh . . . hmmm . . . how about either having a pro do it or become a pro yourself?

You know what I mean?

No, I don't know what you mean. There are no "pro" effects to make things sound slick. Some pros don't even use any effects whatsoever, so that in itself could be considered an effect.

Also I know i am gonna get in trouble for this one, but, how important are monitors. EEEEEEK I know, come on let me have it.

Oh, sweet Jesus. Have mercy.

Say, Stoctony. I noticed from your profile that you're a military guy. I was wondering if you could help me: I was watching an air show this past summer, and I was really impressed with how those pilots were able to fly around like that. It was really neat.

Do you think you could maybe tell me . . . like in a few paragraphs or whatever . . . how I might be able to fly planes like that? I don't have any experience, but I'm pretty good with video games and stuff. I was wondering if there was maybe like a button I could push when I get in the cockpit that will make the plane do flips like that?

Thanks.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Also I know i am gonna get in trouble for this one, but, how important are monitors. EEEEEEK I know, come on let me have it.

They're the most important thing you use. Picture this:

There's a hypothetical world where everybody needs eyeglasses pretty badly, but nobody can afford glasses that truly correct their vision. To make matters worse, everybody has glasses that are incorrect in a different way, so everybody is seeing different errors. (If you haven't caught on, this parrallels everybody in the world listening though consumer stereos.)

Now, if you are painting a picture for these people, how important is it that you have the most accurate glasses possible? The only chance you have of producing somthing that looks good to all of these people is to produce something that is visually perfect. That will minimize the errors that everybody else sees, since everybody else is seeing different errors. To this painter, perfect vision is more important than any of his paints, any of his brushes, or his canvas (even though the glasses never touch the paint or have anything to do with paint application).

The same thing holds true for audio. If you are going to make something that sounds good to an army of people who are listening back on thousands of systems that are all wrong in their own unique way, you have to make something that sounds perfect. You have to hear perfectly to do that. Monitors are the most important thing you can get (along with the control room itself).

Great monitors with a locker full of sm 57s and Mackie pre-amps - you have a fighting shot a great record.

Horrible monitors with a locker full of Newman mics and Neve preamps - good luck. Your taking shots in the dark. You'd have better luck with the situation given above.

 

[chessrock]

Well put, Chibi.

Interesting analogies.

 

[stoctony]

OUCH!!! I understand what your saying now, but the analogy just made it hurt even worse. This is why I love musicians. POINT BLANK. I do understand though. Thanks. I guess the real question Chessrock could have been worded Differentl. Obviously HUH? Where can I find a site that explains what compression, ect. does for your track. Also Im just a newbie so Im not gonna get into the whole pilot thing with you Chessrock. Piont Taken!!!

 

[Han]

Listen to the first Norah Jones CD or better SACD, it sold 30 million? copies. It's not mastered loudly and you'll hear no effects whatsoever.

It was probably recorded by great engineers, with great musicians, in a great sounding room, with great mics, hi end gear and mixed on great monitors.

It took me more than twenty years to know what I know now and to be able to do what I do now.

Thanks to the forums I've learned a lot the last two years, thanks to a number of great and very skilled engineers who post on the forums and are willing to help where they can.

If you do a search for anything, for example "compressor", you will find a ton of info.

Learn learn and learn, if you have questions, put them here, but don't expect us to tell you how to record an album like Norah's.

Peace, Han

 

[lpdeluxe]

I think I read this in Astronomy Magazine a few years ago: a guy is interested in astronomy when he's a kid, but never has time for it. Years later, he has a family, he's making good money, and he buys a $10K telescope. He sets it up, looks up into the night sky, and he can't BELIEVE that it doesn't look like the glossy photos in the magazines! What the hell is wrong with his telescope? So he writes a mad letter to the magazine, saying his telescope is a ripoff. And the editors and staff, with a combined thousand or so years of experience in grinding their own mirrors, scrounging used parts and digging through star catalogs to identify something they saw through the lens at 2:00 am, all look at each other...

You can't buy it.

And if you could, I wouldn't want it.

 

[chessrock]

Where can I find a site that explains what compression, ect. does for your track.

Here's a bunch of articles and how-to's on compression:

http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/articles3.htm


And here's some more stuff -- great info for beginners. Lots of reading, though :

http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm


Even more good stuff:

http://www.humbuckermusic.com/techtips.html

 

[stoctony]

Dude, Chessrock That is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot. Oh yeah I kinda wish you could have given me those sites with an analogy. Maybe next time. Thanks again

 

[chessrock]

An analogy?

Hmmm.

I'd say those articles are kinda' like reading about how to fire a gun. They can be helpful learning tools if used properly. Used improperly, they can be dangerous. (A little knowlege is a dangerous thing)

 

[Richard Monroe]

OK Stoctony, you want it straight? Here it is. First, pro sound is not achieved by plugging in an acoustic, you need a microphone and a preamp. Two, pro sound is achieved using a great instrument in a great room. Your Ibanez, unless it is a one of a kind custom piece, is not it. Further, I'm guessing you don't have a perfect room.
Thirdly, one or more high quality mics are used, being plugged into a great preamplifier, then that sound is captured by almost any recording device, a computer, digital recorder, reel-to-reel, or even a decent cassette recorder.
What kind of effects are used to get pro quality acoustic guitar recordings? None whatsoever. No EQ, no reverb, other than the natural sound of that great room, no compression, no noise reduction, NADA. If you start with great sound, all you need to do is record it. If you don't start with great sound, no electronic bullshit is going to help.
It sounds like you are looking for a decent demo you can shop around. Here's 2 programs to achieve that:
1. Buy a pair of Schoeps CMC 64's w/ MK4 capsules ($2165.00) and an Avalon AD2022 ($2500.00). Bring in an acoustics consultant ($500.00) to lay out the room modifications to an already excellent room (say $2500.00 if you do most of the work yourself). Buy a Taylor 710CE ($2500), a couple of good Mogami quad cables ($100) and a couple of Atlas boom stands ($400), then spend a year moving those 2 mics around (free), and you will probably get pro sound. (and maybe even become a pro). Total cost- $8165.00 and a year of your life, using the recording system you already have, assuming you have a real good room to start.
2. Go to a professional recording studio, borrow one of their badass guitars, let the nice audio engineer put those Schoeps in front of you and move them around for 15 minutes or so. Then he can connect them with those Mogami cables to the Avalon. Total cost- about $250 and 5 hours of your life. Of course, when you are done, you will not own a kickass project studio, and you will not know much more about being a recording engineer than you know right now.

The point is that learning about home recording and building a studio is the slowest, most expensive, and most inefficient way to achieve "pro" sound. It is also the most rewarding and worthwhile way I can think of. You just have to decide what it is you are trying to do. You have to learn to walk before you can run.-Richie

 

[Phosphene]

Well said.

--jeremiah

 

[version2]

Growing up around professional recording musicians I find it funny that everyone seems to knock the *cheaper* pieces of equipment.

I dont know how many times I watched my uncle use cheap Fenders and even a few Ibanez guitars (even though he denies it now, but I remember commenting on the funny name when I was kid, dammit). These were used for all kinds of projects from movie scores to whatever.

Point is, the recording equipment all seemed first rate, but the musician and the instruments ranged from expensive to VERY freakin cheap.

 

[stoctony]

Richie,

Im still new at the recording thing. I have what I think is OK. equipment. ( I now say that with reserve after your section.) But i finally learned this weekend that in the recording feild you can record for the whole weekend and learn nothing more than what not to do and still not have a good recording. I guess thats kindof what you said. I now think maybe " Pro Sound" was not the best term to use, looking at the 2 Page post. I guess the better wording would have been " How do I get my recording to not sound like Crap". But hey, I learned alot of what and what not to do just from this post and thats what this thing is about. i think from now on I will think about the words that I use. Hell' my wife has been telling me that for I dont know how many years. Well thanks again.

stoctony

 

[Richard Monroe]

Ya Ha! I'm starting to see the light bulb come on over your head!
OK- take 2- how to get the existing equipment to not sound like crap-
1. Unplug the guitar and leave it that way. A piezo pickup will suck at all times.
2. Get out of that vocal booth! Don't record acoustic in a dead room. Record it in a good room.
3. Put that 3035 about 6-8" from the 12th fret of the Ibanez pointed at the neck.
4. Wear a pair of shorts, a tee shirt, and a pair of socks. No clothes that make any noise whatsoever. Lose all jewelry, especially the watch, if you wear one. Find a wicked solid chair or piano bench/drum throne, whatever, that makes *NO* noise no matter how you move. Lose the guitar strap.
5.Turn off everything you own that makes the slightest noise. The hot water heater, refrigerator, furnace, every clock, every flourescent light. Send the wife and kids to a looong movie. Lock the cat in the upstairs bedroom. Do this until you can hear the silence, like the inside of a conch shell.
6. Tune the guitar until it's *perfect* Not 10 cents sharp- *perfect*. The piano player you decide to add later will love you for this.
7. Plug this mic into the best preamp you can afford, set any eq flat, and turn off *all* fx, reverb, etc. In fact, remove them from the signal chain completely wherever possible. *Do not* use
cheap cables.
8. Put on some headphones and listen to the way the sound changes as you move the mic up and down the neck. Closer to the body, bassier, farther from the body, brighter. Now record some short sections of whatever you want to play today, with the mic moved up and down the neck. If the mic or the preamp has a bass cut, record every position with it on and off.
9, Now- listen to what you have recorded on whatever monitors you have available, even if they are your home stereo speakers. Do not select mic placement based on what you hear with cans on. Pick the mic position that sounds the best to you.
10. Go to a sink and soak your fingers in the hottest water you can stand for 5 full minutes. Go back and listen to the finger squeak that's now mostly gone.
11. Now play the damn song until you get through it without a buzz, a missed beat, a bent note, or any mistake of any consequence. By now, your fingers will hurt, because your calluses are soft from that hot water. No pain, no gain. Check your tuning before *every* take.

Later, you can worry about cool stereo techniques- over the shoulder, M-S, ORTF, X-Y, and all that other stuff. If you can't get good sound out of one mic, you won't get good sound out of 2. I hope you understand I'm trying to help you, not bust your balls. It is only because I have spent the last 2 years trying to do what you are trying to do, and when I started, I knew about what you know. Today, I'm using those Schoeps into the Avalon with the Taylor as described above, and the things I learned with the Oktavas and the Epiphone with a DBX386 are now starting to pay off with "pro" sound. Good luck. Spend one day doing what I just described, then come back and tell me if it helps. If it doesn't, I owe you a set of Elixirs.-Richie