Myths

[mrT]

The fact that recording's easier now is a trap I think. Lures one into thinking that if you just record endless takes you'll be able to create a great performance by reshaping and stitching parts together like a Frankenstein creation.

Tim

I agree. If you have to do more than a punch or two you need to rerecord. And if they can't get that they should be practicing and not recording...

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Well, I'll put it back on topic.

Myth #U505 (per Edan): One actually has to know how to write songs to be a songwriter or know how to play an instrument to be a musician.

Myth #867-5309: That Myth U505 is actually a myth.

There is just NO excuse for a guy that "knows how to play" several instruments and "writes songs" NOT to know his scales or NOT to be able to describe the chord changes or structure of the songs he writes. I don't care how you try to rationalize it off, Edan, there is literally no excuse for such laziness.

Enough fucking around. Here is the end of the argument:

Get off your ass and learn music, for chirst sakes. If you can't invert a chord, or play a 7th, or transpose keys or even something as ridiculously basic as NAME the keys, you cant *really* play the instrument. You are maybe a budding musician, and perhaps even a gifted budding musician for all I know, but you are not a musician. Calling youself otherwise is pure posing, no different than they guy who doesn't even know what a mixer is and calls himself a "producer".

It does not mean that one has to have a PhD in music theory or that they even have to take a single class. It simply means actually learning their instrument, learning the nomencalture that describes the basic operation of that instrument, and learning a handful of basic tonal relationships. That's all. Until then you simply have no credibility on the subject.

Period.

End of argument.

G.

 

[mshilarious]

Myth #867-5309:

I wish Village Idiot was still around

 

[mrT]

Well, I'll put it back on topic.

Myth #U505 (per Edan): One actually has to know how to write songs to be a songwriter or know how to play an instrument to be a musician.

Myth #867-5309: That Myth U505 is actually a myth.

There is just NO excuse for a guy that "knows how to play" several instruments and "writes songs" NOT to know his scales or NOT to be able to describe the chord changes or structure of the songs he writes. I don't care how you try to rationalize it off, Edan, there is literally no excuse for such laziness.

Enough fucking around. Here is the end of the argument:

Get off your ass and learn music, for chirst sakes. If you can't invert a chord, or play a 7th, or transpose keys or even something as ridiculously basic as NAME the keys, you cant *really* play the instrument. You are maybe a budding musician, and perhaps even a gifted budding musician for all I know, but you are not a musician. Calling youself otherwise is pure posing, no different than they guy who doesn't even know what a mixer is and calls himself a "producer".

It does not mean that one has to have a PhD in music theory or that they even have to take a single class. It simply means actually learning their instrument, learning the nomencalture that describes the basic operation of that instrument, and learning a handful of basic tonal relationships. That's all. Until then you simply have no credibility on the subject.

Period.

End of argument.

G.

Please just shut up. Quit beating a dead Horse. YOU are turning into that asshole right now. don't do it. Who the hell are you to define who is and is not a musician. Anyone who makes music is a musician. End of story. Apparently people like the native americans and the Africans and everyone that lived before formal theory was introduced weren't musicians. OH WAIT, that sounds pretty stupid.

If you want to make an ass out of yourself go ahead but GOD DAMN IT let this die. You are WORNG, EDAN is wrong too.

BTW. prove to me that every musician knows that stuff and I'll eat my words. I'll have a lot easier time finding one musicain that doesn't know it. That would prove you wrong. So stop it with the pissing contest and musical elitist attitude.

 

[eraos]

Apparently people like the native americans and the Africans and everyone that lived before formal theory was introduced weren't musicians. OH WAIT, that sounds pretty stupid.

Actually, believe it or not, most other cultures have a more defined set of rules than European based music. It may not be written down with notation, but there are very strict rules as to what a musician can and cannot play.

 

[ez_willis]

It got good again.

 

[Zed10R]

As much as the headbangers will disagree, there is *much* more to getting soul and emotion into music than just volume and distortion.

Saying there are no rules is the fallback position of those who do not wish to learn them.

G.

G, I generally agree with things you say, but this is just not true. Many headbangers, such as myself, are keenly aware that there is much more to soul and emotion in music that just distortion and volume. A hell of a lot more. I know the kind you refer to, and they are the immature type who either eventually grow up, become more insighful, and develop more effective means of communication than full on shread at 1000 mph, or they quit because they aren't the pussy magnets they though they would be. I would like you to be aware of the other kind....the kind that really loves metal and all the intensity of emotion that comes with it. And no, it is not just all angry screaming and hollering.

There is a LOT of headbanger music out there that is very intelligently written, very dynamic without being Dream Theatre cheesy, and full of emotion and soul. What you believe about metal is just another stereo type.

I am very precise with my music and I will never stop learing and improving. I also believe that there are no rules....but there ARE guide lines. Suggestions that will guide you when you are not sure about something. Those guidelines are like presets on a software program. You use those presets untill you understand what that particular effect can do, then you run with it, making it your own, twisting it and morphing it into what YOU want it to be. The presets, or in this case the "rules" that you insist exist are only there to provide you with a starting point. You are SUPPOSED to break them. If you stick to the rules, you will sound just like a preset.

 

[BentRabbit]

First lets start with copyright. A song is copyrighted as soon as it's written. It's up to the writer/writers/publisher to register the song with the copyright office. To do this you simply send them a recording of the song along with a lyric sheet and $30 bucks. You can also register many songs as at once under a complete work for the same amount of money but if any song within that work gets released you will have to file that song seperate from the rest. Once you register a song/songs it will take a few months for the copyright office to send you a notice. The copyright office does not listen or even look at your songs, they simply get filed away and the only time they will come out is if there is a lawsuit. .

That's as far as I got before the 'If a clock chimes 13 then doubt will also be cast on the preceding 12' rule kicked in...

We made a CD... We filled out the various forms to register with the gubment (various because there were songs co-authored on the CD so one registration for the Sound Recording wouldn't work) and sent the forms along with two copies of the CD to the reg gurus.

I was curious about your comment: but if any song within that work gets released you will have to file that song seperate from the rest Not too sure what you were saying there, but thought if I kept reading it would get clarified... Then came: The copyright office does not listen or even look at your songs, they simply get filed away and the only time they will come out is if there is a lawsuit

Ummm...

We had to resubmit a registration form because we got in a hurry on the 3 songs our guitar player wrote putting 'Words and Music by:____' for all three...
The letter I got back from the copyright folks pointed out what we had entered and then reminded us that one of those songs was an instrumental and therefore had no words so we needed to just register it as 'Music by____'

Not too shabby for an outfit that didn't even listen to or look at the song...



I now return you to your dead horse...

 

[Zed10R]

The fact that recording's easier now is a trap I think. Lures one into thinking that if you just record endless takes you'll be able to create a great performance by reshaping and stitching parts together like a Frankenstein creation.

Tim

Nahhh....not really. Maybe for lazy people with no vision who really shouldn't be recording anyway. For everyone else, recording being easier now just means that we have more tools to record WELL, and there are less roadblocks keeping us from finding our *perfect* sound.

The trap is gear...luring you into thinking that great gear will make great recordings.

Myth # 70985412: In regards to original music, "Different" = "Good". If you are different people will like you.

Reality: "Good" is different enough. If you are good, people will like you.

What else ya got?? Anyone??

 

[BentRabbit]

Myth #987654: A 'poor man's copyright' will hold up in court.

Folks STILL think that mailing your song to yourself is valid defense in a copyright infringement case... That doesn't give anyone documentation of authorship date since it would be too easy to just mail yourself a bunch of empty envelopes and then fill them and seal em up at your leisure.
Not to mention the fact that (per the US Copyright Office) if you don't officially register your works, you won't even get your infringement case in front of a judge:

(From www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr)

Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U. S. origin

 

[ez_willis]

Not too shabby for an outfit that didn't even listen to or look at the song...



I now return you to your dead horse...

They're real good at what they do.

 

[ez_willis]

Myth #987654: A 'poor man's copyright' will hold up in court.

Folks STILL think that mailing your song to yourself is valid defense in a copyright infringement case... That doesn't give anyone documentation of authorship date

Technically, the song has a copyright as soon as it's written so why bother mailing it to yourself or the copyright office?

 

[Farview]

Technically, the song has a copyright as soon as it's written so why bother mailing it to yourself or the copyright office?

I think the line goes something like: It has a copyright as soon as it is written, but you can't prove it until you register it.

 

[famous beagle]

This is just way silly at this point.


EDAN is bitter because he doesn't know theory and so he feels compelled to make ridiculous blanket statements like "knowing theory will in no way make you a better songwriter."

There's no way in the world he could know how the learning of theory may or may not have helped someone else.


If you feel compelled to learn theory, do it.

If not, don't do it.


You don't need theory to be a good musician (see "Stevie Ray Vaughn, Paul McCartney, etc.)


You CAN know theory and still be a great songwriter (see Sting, Paul Simon, etc.)



Everything else is just getting pedantic at this point.

 

[Zed10R]

I think the line goes something like: It has a copyright as soon as it is written, but you can't prove it until you register it.

Yet another Capitalist scam!! In order to prove something is rightfully yours you gotta pay!! Next we'll have to pay to wipe our asses!!.....oh wait..we already do....We'll have to pay to die!! Oh wait......Will it ever end??


Myth: You get what you pay for.

Reality: Evian is every bit as watery as Arrowhead.

 

[EDAN]

Well, I'll put it back on topic.

Myth #U505 (per Edan): One actually has to know how to write songs to be a songwriter or know how to play an instrument to be a musician.

Myth #867-5309: That Myth U505 is actually a myth.

There is just NO excuse for a guy that "knows how to play" several instruments and "writes songs" NOT to know his scales or NOT to be able to describe the chord changes or structure of the songs he writes. I don't care how you try to rationalize it off, Edan, there is literally no excuse for such laziness.

Enough fucking around. Here is the end of the argument:

Get off your ass and learn music, for chirst sakes. If you can't invert a chord, or play a 7th, or transpose keys or even something as ridiculously basic as NAME the keys, you cant *really* play the instrument. You are maybe a budding musician, and perhaps even a gifted budding musician for all I know, but you are not a musician. Calling youself otherwise is pure posing, no different than they guy who doesn't even know what a mixer is and calls himself a "producer".

It does not mean that one has to have a PhD in music theory or that they even have to take a single class. It simply means actually learning their instrument, learning the nomencalture that describes the basic operation of that instrument, and learning a handful of basic tonal relationships. That's all. Until then you simply have no credibility on the subject.

Period.

End of argument.

G.

You've been studying too much theory. This non musician, non producer posted a song he recorded and played on at home no, with cheap gear no less that from a quality point of view sounds better than just about anything else I've heard out here thus far (no offense to anyone, I've heard so good stuff) it's on par with what many of the better pro demo studios churn out here in Texas and in Nashville. Now, you've never heard my songwriting, don't make me post and put you in your place like I did with the song I produced Lets hear you do better, lets hear you even come close to what this non producers non muscian posted. .. Thought so, son.

 

[Creamyapples1]

You've been studying too much theory. This non musician, non producer posted a song he recorded and played on at home no, with cheap gear no less that from a quality point of view sounds better than just about anything else I've heard out here thus far (no offense to anyone, I've heard so good stuff) it's on par with what many of the better pro demo studios churn out here in Texas and in Nashville. Now, you've never heard my songwriting, don't make me post and put you in your place like I did with the song I produced Lets hear you do better, lets hear you even come close to what this non producers non muscian posted. .. Thought so, son.

Oh oh, can I smack peters too?

 

[famous beagle]

You've been studying too much theory. This non musician, non producer posted a song he recorded and played on at home no, with cheap gear no less that from a quality point of view sounds better than just about anything else I've heard out here thus far (no offense to anyone, I've heard so good stuff) it's on par with what many of the better pro demo studios churn out here in Texas and in Nashville. Now, you've never heard my songwriting, don't make me post and put you in your place like I did with the song I produced Lets hear you do better, lets hear you even come close to what this non producers non muscian posted. .. Thought so, son.

LOL ... Oh no!!! Look out for the SONGWRITING MONSTER!!!

He's mean, he's vicious, and .... HE'S NEVER STUDIED THEORY!!!

Oh my god! <blood curdling scream>


Gimme a break.

People write songs. Some use theory. Some don't.

Get off your frickin' high horse and get on with life.

 

[famous beagle]

You've been studying too much theory. This non musician, non producer posted a song he recorded and played on at home no, with cheap gear no less that from a quality point of view sounds better than just about anything else I've heard out here thus far (no offense to anyone, I've heard so good stuff) it's on par with what many of the better pro demo studios churn out here in Texas and in Nashville. Now, you've never heard my songwriting, don't make me post and put you in your place like I did with the song I produced Lets hear you do better, lets hear you even come close to what this non producers non muscian posted. .. Thought so, son.

By the way, where is this song? I'd love to hear it, but when I went to the link, it said "band status aborted" or something like that.

 

[Farview]

You've been studying too much theory. This non musician, non producer posted a song he recorded and played on at home no, with cheap gear no less that from a quality point of view sounds better than just about anything else I've heard out here thus far (no offense to anyone, I've heard so good stuff) it's on par with what many of the better pro demo studios churn out here in Texas and in Nashville. Now, you've never heard my songwriting, don't make me post and put you in your place like I did with the song I produced Lets hear you do better, lets hear you even come close to what this non producers non muscian posted. .. Thought so, son.

You are going to break your arm patting yourself on the back for making an acoustic guitar sound like...well...AN ACOUSTIC GUITAR! What a triumph! Try something that takes a little bit of know-how and talent.