Myths

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EDAN said:
A song is copyrighted as soon as it's written. It's up to the writer/writers/publisher to register the song with the copyright office. To do this you simply send them a recording of the song along with a lyric sheet and $30 bucks. You can also register many songs as at once under a complete work for the same amount of money but if any song within that work gets released you will have to file that song seperate from the rest. Once you register a song/songs it will take a few months for the copyright office to send you a notice. The copyright office does not listen or even look at your songs, they simply get filed away and the only time they will come out is if there is a lawsuit. Now, if you are an outside songwriter who writes for other artists there is little reason to register your songs as it could get very expensive. In Nashville most songs don't get registered until they are about to be released on an album and sometimes even after they are released and this is done by the publisher as the publisher owns the song (the publisher could me the songwriter, but most likely it's in outside publisher who got the song cut). Songs are pitched for years and years in Nashville before they ever get registered with the copyright office. It's very rare a song is actually stolen and I believe over 90% of the cases are dismissed, don't hold me to that number, but it's what I recall reading. Now once the song is selling it's the record labels job to gather sales data and pay the Harry Fox Agency (there are other much smaller agencies) the mechanical royalty rate (set by the gov.) which is now either 9 or 9.5 cents an album sold. If you more have more than one song on an album you get the rate for each song. The label pays HFA quartly and then HFA pays the songwriter. There are many loopholes which allow the label to IMO screw the songwriter, Promo CD's, international releases etc pay zero to less than the 9 or 9.5 cents and it takes a lot longer for the songwriter to collect. The publisher (usually) gets none of this money, only the songwriter. If you are a staff songwriters getting a draw from a publisher sometimes they try and get a piece of the mechanicals to recoup your advance, but this is rare and most all attorneys in the know would advise against the songwriter they represent accepting this.

Now, on to performance roylties, these anywhere your song gets played in public besides restuarants, on the radio, in an elevator, in your local club, on TV etc. (movies are different and are negotiated by the publisher). The songwriter first has to be affiliated with a performance rights organization such as ASCAP or BMI, songwriters join for free, publishers pay a fee to belong. ASCAP and BMI have different ways of calculating performance royalties. There are blanket fees club owners, store owners, etc have to pay to the PRO's (performance rights organizations) which have to do with the size of the club. These fees are usually in the hundreds and are paid yearly. So every club that has live conver music around the country (and other countries) pay these fees the the PROs who inturn splice it up and pay their songwriters. Now, the big money is in a hit song. This is very confusing and I can assure you only the attorneys at the PROs no exactly who gets what and why, but the basic way it works is this. Market size for the radio station determines a lot, bigger markets mean more people are listening and requesting any given song and gives the song more exposure overal. The time of day a song is played matters as well, drive time I believe pays the most and midnight until six am I believe pays the least. Depending on the market and time a song will earn anywhere from 10 cents to 25 cents or more a spin. An average pop hit song might get two or three million spins a year, a mega hit might get over five million. Devide those spins by an average of say 17 cents and you can see where the big money comes from. There are also other more indepth and involved factors which can double for a time the airplay royalties. The songwriter and publishers are the only people who make performance royalties. That is to say the singer doesn't make a cent unless they wrote the song. Of course in pop and rock music most bands write their own music and thus can make a lot of money. In country or MOR (i.e Celen Dion, etc) as well as some pop outside writers write about two thirds of hit songs and they and they alone get the royalties. I should explain that the publisher owns the song, the publisher is you unless you sign part or all of the song away. Although an outside writer can make any deal they want with a publisher the most typical is one where the publisher owns the song 100% and it is his responsiblity to pitch the song and try to secure a cut, it is also his job to collect all money owed from the PROs and pay the songwriter. Now, here's where it gets confusing. Although the publisher owns the song, the songwriter always, by law, gets at least half of the performace royalties. Now, lets say you are co-publisher where you own half the publishing and a "real" publisher owns the other half, You would than get your writers share of performance royalties plus half of the publishing, meaning you earn 75 percent and your co-publisher get 25 percent. In somewhat, but not all that, rare cases a songwriter will own all of his own publishing, in these cases the writer usually works with an administrater. who fuctions somewhat like a publisher minus the pitching of your songs, they do the paper work, collect money owed etc for a percentage, usually 10%-20%. I'm sure a forgot a few things, but I'm getting tired!

Ps. Excuse the typos and spelling, I need a nap.
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This is wrong on so many levels that it makes it cute.
 
Dogman said:
And Giraffe is lathering up his nuts with peanut butter....
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But wouldn't jelly or that fluffinutter stuff be a better complement?
 
ez_willis said:
This is wrong on so many levels that it makes it cute.
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No need to pretend you have a clue, because you don't. Let's hear how wrong it is, I'll take you to task on each and every point. I think I'll be waiting a long time.
 
EDAN said:
No need to pretend you have a clue, because you don't. Let's hear how wrong it is, I'll take you to task on each and every point. I think I'll be waiting a long time.
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EDAN, ez had a major label deal some years back. I suspect he knows what he is talking about.
 
EDAN said:
No need to pretend you have a clue, because you don't. Let's hear how wrong it is, I'll take you to task on each and every point. I think I'll be waiting a long time.
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I get two royalty checks four times a year. One for my publishing company and one in my name.

You'll be waiting for one of those almost as long as you'll be waiting for me to correct you, because I get the impression that in your mind you have it all figured out, and you aren't open for the way shit really is, so I'm not going to waste my time, cutie.
 
mshilarious said:
EDAN, ez had a major label deal some years back. I suspect he knows what he is talking about.
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A record deal is not what we are talking about here at all, though he should be more informed if he did. Now, ez and anyone else can feel free to ask around and do their own research, when all is said and done they will see the light. I'm a songwriter, I lived in Nashville for five years, I know many big and small time publishers, I know people at HFA and all the writer reps at all the PROs and I last but not least, I know what I'm talking about and if ez doesn't agree he simply doesn't know. I'm waiting for him to tell me point by point what he thinks I'm wrong about.
 
EDAN said:
A record deal is not what we are talking about here at all, though he should be more informed if he did. Now, ez and anyone else can feel free to ask around and do their own research, when all is said and done they will see the light. I'm a songwriter, I lived in Nashville for five years, I know many big and small time publishers, I know people at HFA and all the writer reps at all the PROs and I last but not least, I know what I'm talking about and if ez doesn't agree he simply doesn't know. I'm waiting for him to tell me point by point what he thinks I'm wrong about.
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Yeah, and I'm still waiting for the chord progression from your last song :rolleyes:

Spare me the "I lived in Nashville and know all these people" stuff. Nobody really cares.

PS Do you ever watch old shows of Patsy and Hank and wonder how the hell country music sucks so bad 50 years later?
 
ez_willis said:
I get two royalty checks four times a year. One for my publishing company and one in my name.

You'll be waiting for one of those almost as long as you'll be waiting for me to correct you, because I get the impression that in your mind you have it all figured out, and you aren't open for the way shit really is, so I'm not going to waste my time, cutie.
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I've been getting royality checks for ten years, what's your point. You have nothing to back up your statement, it seem since you have not pointed out where I'm wrong, you can't and that makes complete sense. Keep stone walling until this goes away and hopefully eveyone wont see you put your foot in your mouth.
 
EDAN said:
I've been getting royality checks for ten years, what's your point. You have nothing to back up your statement, it seem since you have not pointed out where I'm wrong, you can't and that makes complete sense. Keep stone walling until this goes away and hopefully eveyone wont see you put your foot in your mouth.
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You neglect that ez's stated goal is to keep the thread going forever.

I intend to help :D
 
ez_willis said:
This is wrong on so many levels that it makes it cute.
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Actually, Edan's description is, for the most part, quite correct.

Some followup for you, though, Edan if I may: What does it take to qualify for ASCAP membership (as an artist, not a publisher) and what is needed to register a song with ASCAP?

G.
 
mshilarious said:
Yeah, and I'm still waiting for the chord progression from your last song :rolleyes:

Spare me the "I lived in Nashville and know all these people" stuff. Nobody really cares.

PS Do you ever watch old shows of Patsy and Hank and wonder how the hell country music sucks so bad 50 years later?
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You are now spared.


No need to get cocky because you stood up for ez but now realize he doesn't have a clue about this stuff.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Some followup for you, though, Edan if I may: What does it take to qualify for ASCAP membership (as an artist, not a publisher) adn what is needed to register a song with ASCAP?

G.
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A song is registered with ASCAP as soon as it's written!

Do you like to watch my Mr. Evil_Sun guy eat stickbirds?
 
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