My bass drum needs more PUNCH

[whichisfair]

So I'm working on a project...its an acoustic-rock type deal, a la Jason Mraz, John Mayer...that kind of thing...The drummer I brought in to play on it is a guy I know from way back, but the problem is that he is more of a jazz drummer than a straight-ahead rocker...the result of this is a decent drum sound except mainly for the kick...he doesn't tend to hit it real hard too often...especially if its not on a downbeat, the sound is very "cardboardy"...I was hoping that maybe some of you had some suggestions as to steps I could take to get as much POP and PUNCH out of the bass drum as possible given the raw tracks I'm working with....any tips...crazy tricks...eq advice .... all would be much appreciated. Thanks

-Dan

 

[gemsbok]

you could copy the bass drum track and compress the heck out of it.make several copies and eq each one a little different and play with panning them. other than that you could try to replace the bass drum track using software or using an alesis d-4 triggering drum modual or similar.

 

[notbradsohner]

how did you record it?

 

[Farview]

Drumagog!!!!!!!!

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Tell the drummer to play like a man, or tune the drum to sound punchy, or get another drummer . That's what I'd do, and in that order.

 

[chessrock]

Drumagog!!!!!!!!

There ya go.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Tell the drummer to play like a man...

That's all there really is to say. OK, the Drummagog thing will also work.

But really, the way to get a drum to sound punchy is for it to actually BE punchy.

 

[Nate74]

I had a similar problem recently and ended up taking the drums off my HD24 into Cakewalk and replacing the entire bass drum track in parts. I used a Betamonkey sample of a 22" bass drum I liked and just looked for downbeats that didn't "hit" hard enough. It was a huge pain so I'd suggest retracking the parts and encourage the drummer to "play like a man" unless that's gonna buy you an ass-whoopin...

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

If you are going to be doing "by hand" drum sample replacement make sure you are getting your full by-the-hour rate.

 

[Bodhisan]

"Play like a man?"

You frickin' neanderthals.

Two choices: Get the right drummer for the music, or Gemsbok has given you the best advice for fixin' the problem.

And just maybe, this guy's got the right juice -- it's just not what you were anticipating. Can you post a clip? Could be tops!

 

[freak1c]

heres a kick trick, run a 50 hz. oscillator tone thru a gate, with the kick going into the sidechain (key input ) of the gate and dial it up so the kick triggers the gate to open and pass the oscillator signal. blend with dry kick track and you got a subbass kick from hell.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

I find the best trick with rock drummers is to get them excited so they play with some energy and passion. Too often they are concerned about getting everything right that they freeze up and just suck (and often make MORE mistakes).

That's why I like bands to play the songs as a band, even though I throw away most everything but the drums (everything will be isolated).

 

[punkin]

heres a kick trick, run a 50 hz. oscillator tone thru a gate, with the kick going into the sidechain (key input ) of the gate and dial it up so the kick triggers the gate to open and pass the oscillator signal. blend with dry kick track and you got a subbass kick from hell.

I like that 50Hz trick...gave it a shot and came up with some really cool stuff! Just wondering...if you wanted to keep or improve on the beater "bap", what chunk of the spectrum would you look at...I've been mucking with the EQ and I seem be picking up the snare when I try to open up the upper end.

 

[Farview]

I like that 50Hz trick...gave it a shot and came up with some really cool stuff! Just wondering...if you wanted to keep or improve on the beater "bap", what chunk of the spectrum would you look at...I've been mucking with the EQ and I seem be picking up the snare when I try to open up the upper end.

Try around 3k. If you are getting too much snare in the kick mic, you should move the mic to the other side so it isn't pointing at the snare. And hit the kick harder.

 

[volltreffer]

on the 'puter: drumagog (havent used it yet, though)

on 'real' recorder: alesis d4/d5/dm pro or a sampler that can trigger sound through triger in (emu 4xt ultra)

The 50Hz trick sounds really cool, and you might try to use some compression (I often used multiband compression for similar purposes).

aXel

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

Btw, for a fraction of the price of 1 drumagog, you could get aptrigga2 which does the same thing.

 

[Farview]

The multisample mode on apttrigga doesn't cut it. Drumagog smokes this thing if you are worried about making it sound real.

 

[pweaver]

Not having heard this kick drum nor song, I'm really shooting in the dark here,
you'll need to make these adjustments with your monitors turned up a bit so they can move a little air
(but for the most part I recommend mixing at a lower confortable volume) but here are some starting point EQ settings you can try . . .

Dump 250hz and/or 300hz with a Q (notch) of 1.3 to 2.0 by as many db as you want till it sounds less boxy.

Boost 80, 90 or 100hz by a few db with the Q set around 2.0 till you like the punch your hearing through your speakers.

Boost 4k or 5k (or anything in between) by as many db as you need till you
get a nice "click" sound giving attack to the kick.

Avoid a compressor unless absolutely necessary . . . and if you must, set it
for a slow attack, 30ms or longer . . . adjust the attack and release till you like the tone.
Set threshold wherever it needs to be to get a consistent steady volume out of every beat.
Ratio is an experiment . . . start with 4:1
then increase and see if you like the result.

If this is a rock song, run the kick fairly hot in the mix.

 

[riantide]

Maybe I'm being a dipshit, but I say either get a drummer that fits the session or tones that fit the drummer. If the drummer doesn't really whack his kick drum, maybe the tone shouldn't be punchy. It could set the vibe for the rest of the record.