My 2 cents on the Groove Tubes MD-1B

[Big Kenny]

I am saying that cheap doesn't equate to "good deal"
A $150 mic that I never use was $ wasted, not $ saved.
If you need a mic email me your address and I'll send you one of 'em. Do you have phantom power?
In His Name
Big Kenny

 

[CanopuS]

Haha. What mic would that be?

 

[chessrock]

Now I bet you're gonna tell us this is through a Great River, Apogee converters etc

Actually, I had the mic plugged in to the Rane MS-1B at the time. My first instinct would normally be to plug it in to the Sytek, but I liked what I was hearing over the monitors so I just left it alone. I had to dial in more high end than I'm used to -- it's a darker mic (and quite smooth). Good news is I had to do very little de-essing. Nice.

I'm not really a hardcore gear slut or anything. I just go with whatever works and don't try to overanalyze things -- at least while I'm tracking, that is.

 

[chessrock]

gotta say like the guitar and vocal tones, for what that is worth.

those aint real drums are they?

too bad the singer has that horrible vocal affectation- i forget its name- the collective soul "yeah" affectation.

he he. Yea, you nailed it. I try not to judge too much. At least the guy can carry a tune and seems to have good technique. I like their band, overall, though. And they're a pretty nice bunch of dudes.

Of course those are real drums. I hope they don't sound canned -- I work too hard (and get paid too little) mic'ing that shit up and mixing it down. You know, on second thought, they do kinda' sound sound almost like a drum machine, don't they?

 

[musical5]

Thats a great recording Chessrock! Thanks for sharing.



Justin

 

[eeldip]

i think it is the extreme indivdual drum element panning that gives strikes me as "unreal" . like that splash cymbal all the way over to the left or that tom which is all the way over to the right.

the ride actually sounds pretty real on second listen, his playing is a bit robotic though, which plays into the unreal quality...

anyway, just a clarification...

 

[chessrock]

Yea, you're right, Eeldip. They'd sound a lot more realistic if I were to collapse the stereo spread a bit. On second listen, it's obvious that it's just too wide. I should run all my mixes by you guys. Be my second set of ears.

 

[freshmattyp]

I'm happy to report that this mic smokes some serious booty. I've been working with a male singer that i just haven't been able to find a good mic fit, the MD1B was spot on. This guy is a very strong, somewhat strident baritone. The GT took the edge right out of his voice and made him a lot smoother. I'll try to get a rough mix posted later today.

 

[formerlyfzfile]

Nice tune Chess.

I was only able to listen on my "internet computer's" computer speakers but I dig the vibe.
Sounds a lot like this band I sort of knew in college at Oneonta (NY)

The singer is a dead ringer for your guy.
Nice vocal sound.

I have a question about the tone(s).

What kinda guitar/amp setup was used?
I might guess a Marshall amp.
Also, how many guitar tracks.
Sounds like just one .... maybe two on the chroruses??
I love when the guitar sounds like it actually came out of an amp and not the 10-layer "nerf-guitar" sound.

Also, how was the kit mic'd?
The cymbols are so quiet.

I dont think it sounds like a drum machine personally.... a little stiff maybe but not really unnatural.
Too much air in the snare for a machine.
I like some PINNNG in the snare.

And the kick has got that "skin" sound.

I cant wait to get some use outta these mics on a kit.
I am dying to try these out as overheads.

-mike

 

[formerlyfzfile]

Ok ok ok

So what I meant was.....

I have several questions.

-mike

 

[chessrock]

Re: Nice tune Chess.

I have a question about the tone(s).

Cool. I love talking about this kind of stuff, so I don't mind.

What kinda guitar/amp setup was used?
I might guess a Marshall amp.

Believe it or not, it was just a really clean-sounding solid state with two big ass speakers in the cabinet. I can ask for the brand name if you'd like. I think you could get that kind of clean tone out of most any solid stater, though. Nothing fancy. For the distorted tones, I believe he used a Danelectro pedal -- not sure which one, though. Whatever their super-grungo one is.

how many guitar tracks.

Just one. BUT the cabinet has two speakers, and I mic'ed each one separately . . . one with the Groove Tube and the other with a 57. I mixed the GT track louder because I thought it sounded better. I basically laid the cabinet down horizontally and placed a big wedge of 703 insulation between the two speakers so I could isolate them better while mic'ing.

Also, how was the kit mic'd? The cymbols are so quiet.

I like quiet cymbals, so I'm glad it worked out that way. I just stuck a couple of Oktava MC012's . . . one of them in very close on the floor tom (purposely place low so as to avoid the ride and crash cymbals) and angled so it was pointing at the snare. This is why you hear the floor tom panned so hard.

The other one I stuck right between the two middle toms, again placed low so as to be out of harm's reach of the cymbals and pointed at the snare, which was also mic'ed close with a 57.

And the kick has got that "skin" sound.

You have Drumagog to thank for that one, because originally, the kick sounded like ass. So I replaced it with the Yamaha sample off Perfect Drums.

 

[eeldip]

AH HA!

drumagog!

that might be adding to the machineness as well... i knew i smelled computer.

now that i think about it, i gotta get me some drumagog. seems like fun. and a great way to rescue mistakes made in tracking, which... well, believe me, riddle everything i do.

 

[chessrock]

I knew from the moment we soundchecked that I'd likely be paying a visit to "the Gog." Dude's kick just sounded weak -- nothing you can really do about it. I'd rather just keep the session moving and pull out the Gog later if necessary.

 

[eeldip]

yea, this one band i have recorded a few times comes in with the WORST sounding drums. but they have been "modded" in a way that they will ONLY use them, and they always say, "hey we want to sound like shit, so our drums sound like shit".

and then by the time mixdown happens they are all pissed off with the drum sounds, cause they sound like shit in that really boring cardboardy way that shitty drums sound like.

coulda used drumagog.

 

[chessrock]

. . . and they always say, "hey we want to sound like shit, so our drums sound like shit".

and then by the time mixdown happens they are all pissed off with the drum sounds, cause they sound like shit . . .

So it sounds to me like they want the drums to sound shitty, then they complain because you give them exactly what they asked for. Gotta' love those guys.

 

[eeldip]

shit means different things to different people.

i think when you are in a room and someone is pounding away on crappy drums it sounds sort of cool cause it is so loud.

but when you record them, all you get is the cardboard, the lack of interesting overtones and so on.

so you try to turn them up, compress the hell out of them, distort them, but really you are working with so little info that it never sounds shitty good, but shitty shittty. it is really hard to explain to people who dont know much about engineering.

 

[chessrock]

it is really hard to explain to people who dont know much about engineering.

Tell me about it. That's one of the toughest things I face.

To really explain it to them would take an entire lesson in physics. Then they wonder why you're so vague when you tell them why something isn't going to work. You just have to hope they trust you. And if they need everything explained to them, then you just hope they're sharp and can pick up on things and understand.

. . . At least to where they can understand what they don't know.

It takes a keen, sharp and objective person to know what you don't know.

And those who are armed with a little knowlege are about the most dangerous to themselves and others. I know it's a cliche and all, but it's true. And most every musician has at least a little bit of knowlege about sound and recording -- or at least a strong interest. i.e. Through playing with P.A.s, mixer boards, reading their guitar magazines, visiting homerecording.com, etc.

 

[formerlyfzfile]

So when you say

placed low so as to be out of harm's reach of the cymbals

...do you mean UNDER the cymbols.

I never thought about doing that.

For the distorted tones, I believe he used a Danelectro pedal -- not sure which one, though. Whatever their super-grungo one is.

Wow.
I have a friend who has/had a bunch of those Danelectro pedals.
They were the noisiest pedals I've ever heard ...... with the possible exception of my old Zoom 3030.

I would have never guessed a Danelectro pedal ...... but hey it sounds prety good oon the track.
Must have found a good one lol

Thats a good idea putting some 703 inbetween the two speakers.

I'll have to try that.

Speaking of shitty drum kits (bad segway)

One of the funniest things I ever saw was Mr. Bungle on the Snowcore tour.
I LOVE Bungle but I couldnt believe it when they were setting up (they mostly set up their own stuff..... and have chick roadies) the drummer's kit was this absolutely ridiculously ratty jr-sized kit that looked like it was literally falling apart.

I mean there was duct tape and electrical tape all over the place and the snare was like knee level.
Broken cymbol... the whole nine.
I think they had like 3, maybe 4 mics on the kit.

Sounded pretty good though considering ...... of course that MF can PLAY. and there is so much other kaotic stuff going on that the drums themselves (as opposed to the rythm in general) aren't really prominant.

Actually.... come to think of it, they all had duct tape all over the place. I think the duct tape is part of their sound.

Anywho......

so Chess....... a couple of more questions.

Bass...what the deal there?
Has that passive, slightly overdriven sound.

Also.....those other Nowhere tracks ...... the Safesound vs the Sytek tracks.

Were both the guitar(s) and vox recorded with each pre exclusively???

IMO the Sytek sounds much better.......less cluttered on the Guit and warmer or less ...... strident? on the voice.

But the safesound is also a compressor right?


-mike

 

[chessrock]

...do you mean UNDER the cymbols.

Yup.

Actually.... come to think of it, they all had duct tape all over the place. I think the duct tape is part of their sound.

I never thought of it, but it's an interesting theory.

Bass...what the deal there?
Has that passive, slightly overdriven sound.

Don't remember what kind it was, but I went direct through the Groove Tubes Ditto box. Made a copy of the track, fuzzed it up using some (fuzzy) cabinet setting in Amplitube, and mixed that in with the original. Kind of a lazy mans' approach to combining a mic'ed and DI signal.

Were both the guitar(s) and vox recorded with each pre exclusively???

That would be correct. I deliberately tried to match each take up and elimiate as many variables as possible so as to get an idea of the character of both pres.

IMO the Sytek sounds much better.......less cluttered on the Guit and warmer or less ...... strident? on the voice.

But the safesound is also a compressor right?

Yea, that's interesting. I can't tell a lot of difference between the two to be honest. I was hoping to hear a clear winner. The compressor was bypassed on those samples. It is a pretty amazing comp, though.

 

[formerlyfzfile]

Actually I would like to amend that last part.

I meant to edit the Sytex is better thing but then I edited some grammer and that 1st edit went back to my original statement.

I listened to both on my recording monitors and the Safesound is a better blended mix of the vox and box.

But I like the less "boomy" guitar sound from the Sytek.
Although there is more string and fret noise from the Sytek....almost as if there as more gain used.

Was thet the Burr Brown pres ot the regular???

I am not really sure which I like better.
I would have to say the Sytek still .... but marginally.

-mike