MXL V77, SP C1, Neumann M149 observations

  • Thread starter Thread starter Han
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Henrik said:
Based on what I've heard recorded with the M149 it's a wonderful mic, and a mic I look forward to owning myself one day. I haven't heard the V77, and although I'm sure it's a fine mic for the money I'm convinced V77 vs M149 is apples vs oranges.

Best,
Henrik
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No it's not apples/oranges bro, they sound very much alike, although the 149 is the winner in most applications and it should be for that price.

But if you would compare the B1, C1, the M149 and the V77 in a blind test, you'd have a hard time to say which one is the 149 and which one the 77.
 
QUOTE]Originally posted by Fab4ever
Han, do you think a V69 is different enough from a V77 (on vocals) to have them both? [/QUOTE]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Han
Yes, they sound quite different, both very good but significantly different. [/QUOTE]

And Harvey once posted that he prefered the V69 over the V77 most of the time. Which one do you prefer Han?
 
Depends on the voice or the instrument. The V77 is more neutral sounding than the V69, but I can imagine someone prefers the 69.

In most cases I will prefer the V77, but I have an M149 remember?:D
 
I've used a V77, and I've used a V69.

While the V69 just sounded basically like ass, the V77 I actually found utterly useless.

Of the really cheap tube mics, the only one that comes anywhere near the ballpark of something like a 149 is the Groove Tubes MD1. I've also heard some samples of the ADK TL/TC and the Studio Projects T3 against a 149, and I thought both held their own really well.

Never used a 149, but everything I've heard tracked with one sounded great.
 
Han said:
Without any doubt, the M149 is better sounding, the sound is more 'airy' and the highs are more 'silky' than the V77, but only trained ears will hear this.

I was using the three mic on vocals only yesterday. I did many other things with the 149, violin, cello, grand piano, woodwinds, accordeon, you name it and I probably recorded it.

But for a microphone that costs less than 1/10 of the Neumann M149, the MXL V77 sounds amazingly like the expensive German mics.
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I'm ususally amazed at what untrained ear can hear. For the most part, if the "untrained listener" is paying attention, he or she can hear the difference.

The V77 is a decent mic, particuarly for the price. The M149 is an incredible mic, notwithstanding its price.

Perhaps it would be better to compare the V77 to other tube (or FET) cardioid only mics. The M149 has several features that the V77 does not have, so comparing the V77 and M149 on price is somewhat inaccurate. Keep in mind too that about 30% of the retail price of the M149 is due to price increases in the past two years or so (in the US) due to the Euro/Dollar exchange rate.

If I were on a budget looking for a cardioid only tube LD, the V77 would be on the list. But so would several other mics, such as the ADK 51-TC, SP T-3, and the AT 4060, among others.
 
DJL said:
QUOTE]Originally posted by Fab4ever
Han, do you think a V69 is different enough from a V77 (on vocals) to have them both?
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QUOTE]Originally posted by Han
Yes, they sound quite different, both very good but significantly different. [/QUOTE]

And Harvey once posted that he prefered the V69 over the V77 most of the time. Which one do you prefer Han? [/QUOTE]And I find myself using the V77 a lot more recently. The V69ME is a very impressive sounding mic on the right voices; so is the V77. I'm glad I have both. And I still use the V67's. The Neumann M149 would definitely have a place here, but until I can afford one, the MXL's cover a lot of the same bases.
 
Harvey, in my humble opinion a commercial studio should have at least one, or better a pair of the best mics money can buy.

The M149 with it's 9 polar patterns is a very versatile top quality mic. I've read that Al Schmitt owns five M149's.

I noticed on your website that you own more than 100 mics, maybe you should sell the ones that you haven't used the last year and buy a top quality mic?
 


But if you would compare the B1, C1, the M149 and the V77 in a blind test, you'd have a hard time to say which one is the 149 and which one the 77. [/B]
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I'd be happy to listen to such a comparison. If you have the time to spare to record some sound files, I could host them for everybody to download. My faves for mic comparison are front of drumkit and acoustic guitar.

Did you hear the comparison between T3, ADK A48 and M149 over at GearSlutz? The differences were not subtle by any stretch of the word, and I just listened to it through my crappy home speakers.

Oh, and just so we're clear about this - I'd be truly happy if the V77 was as close to the M149 as you claim! I'm not doing this as some sort of "I'm right, you're wrong" type of pissing match. It would be truly interesting to hear the V77 side by side with the M149. (You can't emphasize your good intentions often enough on these forums...)

PM me if you're up for it.

Best,
Henrik
 
sdelsolray said:
I'm ususally amazed at what untrained ear can hear. For the most part, if the "untrained listener" is paying attention, he or she can hear the difference.
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I think you're on to something very important here. Untrained listeners hear when a mix is good or when a mix is bad, but they can't pick out what the differences are. While trained ears immediately can pick out things like "oh, that bass is too muddy, rip some 300 Hz, that picked guitar needs more definition, let's try some slow attack compression...", etc.

If you compare a bad and a good mix instrument by instrument, the differences may be very subtle. But my point is - all the small differences is what makes it or breaks it. On the other hand - I'm certain some very good sounding records have been recorded using worse gear than V77's. It's the wiz, not the wand.

Best to all,
Henrik
 
Han said:
Harvey, in my humble opinion a commercial studio should have at least one, or better a pair of the best mics money can buy.

The M149 with it's 9 polar patterns is a very versatile top quality mic. I've read that Al Schmitt owns five M149's.

I noticed on your website that you own more than 100 mics, maybe you should sell the ones that you haven't used the last year and buy a top quality mic?
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Well, Al is a major endorsee for Neumann. I don't think I'll ever reach that status at ITR, outside Sanger, TX. I would gladly kill for a U67, or a long body U47. I consider my current collection of ribbon mics to be pretty decent, and they're now worth a bit of money, thanks to ebay.

Unless I get a Celine Dion or Barbara Strisand in to record here, I don't think I can justify a $4,000 investment in a single microphone. Especially when you consider that we've already had 3 major label album releases, using just the mics we have.

I do plan to add the Stephen Paul mics when they come out. A nice multi-pattern mic would be very useful, but I already have a wide variety of polar patterns to choose from - just not all from one mic.
 
<The V77 uses a cheap Chinese transformer and based on information Marik dug up recently, I’m betting that it and every other transformer coupled Chinese tube mic runs in starved-plate mode.>

Flatpicker,

This one needs little clarification--I probably wasn't clear enough when I wrote it to you. No, the Nady TCM1050 doesn't use starved-plate mode in our usual understanding, when the tube is fed by much lower voltage it needs. What I meant is--because of transformer choice the designer had to bias the tube so that it starves for current.

Currently I am working on Nady TCM1050 modification and am planning on posting about it, including circuit description and reasons for my choices. Now I have a webspace, so I will be able to host sound clips.
In light of this discussion, I think it will be intersting to compare the sound of different capsules in the mic. Besides of unmodified mic, I will record modded one with both--stock and Neumann K87 capsules--both are LD and will work with the same electronic circuit. Yeah, I am looking forward to seeing what Chinese capsules are capable of--just waiting for some parts.
 
Harvey, you're right, $4k for a single microphone seems crazy.

I'm not rich and I still have to work my ass off at the age of 61, but owning a mic like that is worth the 4k.

I was very reluctant when my pimp had sent me the M149 in order to try it and it was my wife who convinced me to buy it.

So I did and I've forgotten about the 4k since.
 
<I was very reluctant when my pimp had sent me the M149 in order to try it and it was my wife who convinced me to buy it.>

Wow!!! Han, I wish I had such a support from my best half...
 
Originally posted by Marik ...No, the Nady TCM1050 doesn't use starved-plate mode in our usual understanding, when the tube is fed by much lower voltage it needs. What I meant is--because of transformer choice the designer had to bias the tube so that it starves for current...[/B]
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I understood that the plate is "current" starved rather then voltage starved, but I'd still classify that as a "starved plate" design. Anyway, after learning about Nady's attempt to cut corners so they wouldn't have to pay for a decent transformer, let's just say I'm suspicious about the V77 and other transformer coupled Chinese "tube" mics. ;)
 
Has anyone swapped out the V77 tube for something better? This may smooth it out a ton.



Justin
 
DJL said:
I just picked up an AT4060 last week... and so far, I'm blown away by how nice it sounds.
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Cool mic..Good luck with it..What you useing for a pre with it?




Don
 
<Has anyone swapped out the V77 tube for something better? This may smooth it out a ton.>

Justin,

Yes, it will smooth it out... a little bit.
Don't forget that tube is only a little part of the mic. Besides of it, with given capsule, we have many things which effect the sound in significant way. Grill construction, quality of parts--capacitors, resistors. Lets say we have all of these of highest quality, but louzy transformer--so what did we do? It will just block most of the subtleties of the sound. Another thing where manufacturers of cheap mics cut the corners--in order to use offshelf parts they have to adjust schematics to the parts (but not parts to the schematics) and so we get louzy design.
I am not sure about V77, as I never had a chance to see its guts, but right now I am working on Nady TCM1050 and all I wrote above is based on this mic.
How much all these things contribute to the sound?
Stay tuned, you will find it out soon....
 
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