Musically, what continues verse into chorus

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nzausrec

nzausrec

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Conventionally:
Does the bass line stay the same, or does it play more notes when it goes into chorus? What if the bass melody does stay the same. What if it changes - how does it change - does it pick up a fifth or an extra note? Does it have to change the basic melody and rythym that it has already in the verses for the chorus?
Does/Can the bass drum keep the same beat as it goes into chorus? How about the snare?
Can cymbals be in a verse?

What if you've got a hook melody in the verse?

I want answers to these questions not just 'use your ears.' I'd like to know distinctly how to approach a chorus.
 
I'm not gonna have this same argument about freedom of expression, that's why I ask about conventional songs. Especially motown. Look, do the bass lines stay the same or not, usually what differences are there ... etc etc.
Jeez Wayne, you guys are musicians, you should know.
 
I think "all of the above" can apply, depending on the song.

I always try to make my choruses distinct from the verses and bridges, just so they stand out and get your attention. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes more pronounced, but I always try to do something.

Usually I will change the percussion a bit, like throwing in some maraccas or bongos, or maybe tapping the bell on the ride cymbal. I think the kick and the snare should stay the same as in the verses.

Usually my bass line carries through the song unchanged. Usually.

I will throw in extra vox, guitar or keys on the chorus almost every time.
 
nzausrec said:
I'm not gonna have this same argument about freedom of expression, that's why I ask about conventional songs. Especially motown. Look, do the bass lines stay the same or not, usually what differences are there ... etc etc.
Jeez Wayne, you guys are musicians, you should know.
Click to expand...

Who the hell is Wayne?

Look, maybe you should listen to some motown and see for yourself.
 
nzausrec said:
Conventionally:
Does the bass line stay the same, or does it play more notes when it goes into chorus? What if the bass melody does stay the same. What if it changes - how does it change - does it pick up a fifth or an extra note? Does it have to change the basic melody and rythym that it has already in the verses for the chorus?
Does/Can the bass drum keep the same beat as it goes into chorus? How about the snare?
Can cymbals be in a verse?

What if you've got a hook melody in the verse?

I want answers to these questions not just 'use your ears.' I'd like to know distinctly how to approach a chorus.
Click to expand...

yes. :cool:


My stuff varies from tune to tune. Like I'm workin on one now that the bass stays the same and the the first 3 notes of the guitar stay the same on vs and chorus but the vocals are the main ingredient that mixes it up.

"Use your ears"
:cool:
 
Look, maybe you should listen to some motown and see [sic] for yourself.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should look at some arithmetic and figure out the formula myself.
How about just an answer or some suggestions, please. If you have none to contribute please refrain from a post of pulling faces :(
 
Strat1958 said:
I think "all of the above" can apply, depending on the song.

I always try to make my choruses distinct from the verses and bridges, just so they stand out and get your attention. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes more pronounced, but I always try to do something.

Usually I will change the percussion a bit, like throwing in some maraccas or bongos, or maybe tapping the bell on the ride cymbal. I think the kick and the snare should stay the same as in the verses.

Usually my bass line carries through the song unchanged. Usually.

I will throw in extra vox, guitar or keys on the chorus almost every time.
Click to expand...

All that stuff is fine... and so is the opposite.

There are no set of rules like you are asking for.

If I say a rule, like say "a song should have a chord progression that isn't boring", then you can come back and play "Low Rider", "Lime in the Coconut" or "Get This Party Started" which are all good songs that only contain one chord!

There's only one rule that always, always works:
NO RULES!

The answer to your questions would be better answered by studying your heroes and seeing what their musical common sense told them to do.
 
nzausrec said:
Maybe I should look at some arithmetic and figure out the formula myself.
How about just an answer or some suggestions, please. If you have none to contribute please refrain from a post of pulling faces :(
Click to expand...

You're asking questions that have no answer. Every song is different and you have to see for yourself what works. Fucking hell, dude. :rolleyes:
 
nzausrec said:
Maybe I should look at some arithmetic and figure out the formula myself.
Click to expand...

2 + 2 = 5

∴ one must always use an augmented 6th in the 3rd bar of any chorus written in 7/8, that is of course if the piece of music is being composed in a leap year. Obviously on a full moon you would substitute that for a two bar rest.
 
That song sounds great. You don't need to worry - how many people do you think will really sit there and analyse the chord progressions in great depth?

Put it this way. What came first? Music or theory?

There's a difference between theory and composition. Music theory is just the analysis and attempted explanation of existing music. It tries to make sense and find patterns in creative works, which by all means exist (obviously there are trends, common elements, etc) but nearly always as broad generalisations or very specific examples.

To continue with the analogies, concentrating too hard on the theoretical side of things when trying to compose a piece of music would be like trying to write a poem based only on the analysis of the work of another poet. It can work, but only really if you intend to write "in the style of" or as an educational exercise.

Its weird when you think about it. You can usually explain the finished item with theory, but there's aspects of the composition process that get you to that point that can't really be explained. Another way to think about is that you can include common musical elements that someone might call 'conventional' - they fit patterns and are described and 'explained' by theory - but you still had to chose to include them in the music to begin with.

Its just one of those things.
 
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Thanks Matt, I read exactly what you wrote and understand what you mean. But what I was asking was really about the rhythm section, rather than chord progression. I should have put thoughts more clearly before posting. I talked about melody which really is a seperate thing going in line with chord progression. What I want to know is rhythm - bass and drums.
It's like with that piece above I wanted to know beforehand that the basic way of rhythm (which I had/have no idea about regardless of listening 300 times to the Commodores - am always captured by their immaculate voices) is about some basic drum stuff at the beginning and introducing the full kit at the chorus. That type of stuff.
Thanks for reply to you and the above musos.
 
Hi,
A lot of the time I will throw a drum fill in the measure just before a chorus or solo takes off. It might start on the 3 or 4 of the measure, or even halfway through the 3. Depending on the feel of the song, it might start on the 1 or 2, or even several measures before the vs/ch change.
Santana and the Allman Brothers Band use(d) what are referred to as "signature riffs"; where one musician would play a repeating phrase or lick, and there would be a build up akin to a climax: reminiscent of The Yardbirds trademark 'Rave Ups'.
The rhythm instruments are not the only ones you can use for change signifiers. And there's nothing that says any single instrument should do this. How about a stop just before jumping into a section and a hint at one when you go back.
Hate to say it but these other guys are right -- it's a very subjective thing. One thing that is common to all the most memorable music is that there was something unique about it the makes it stick in your mind. Good luck.
 
nzausrec said:
Thanks Matt, I read exactly what you wrote and understand what you mean. But what I was asking was really about the rhythm section, rather than chord progression. I should have put thoughts more clearly before posting. I talked about melody which really is a seperate thing going in line with chord progression. What I want to know is rhythm - bass and drums.
It's like with that piece above I wanted to know beforehand that the basic way of rhythm (which I had/have no idea about regardless of listening 300 times to the Commodores - am always captured by their immaculate voices) is about some basic drum stuff at the beginning and introducing the full kit at the chorus. That type of stuff.
Thanks for reply to you and the above musos.
Click to expand...

If all you're asking about is the rhythm section, usually a good drum fill easily introduces the change of a drum pattern going into verse/chorus/bridge/etc. There are no rules to what a drummer plays in a chorus vs the verse. If the music is simpler in the verses, it's nice when they play something a little flashier to fill in the sparseness, but it can also work if they dial it back and just hit the 2's and 4's...see? It all depends on the song.

You are really overcomplicating the process of songwriting for yourself. Do what works, what sounds right.
 
mattr said:
∴ one must always use an augmented 6th in the 3rd bar of any chorus written in 7/8, that is of course if the piece of music is being composed in a leap year. Obviously on a full moon you would substitute that for a two bar rest.
Click to expand...

Priceless :D
 
Nzausrec

I thought your tune was outstanding. A very good listen!:D
 
mattr said:
2 + 2 = 5

∴ one must always use an augmented 6th in the 3rd bar of any chorus written in 7/8, that is of course if the piece of music is being composed in a leap year. Obviously on a full moon you would substitute that for a two bar rest.
Click to expand...

The +6 becomes a -7 which contributes nothing to dissonance. You MUST suspend the +11 of any M7 as it resolves neatly to any other +11/6/9 chord. Stack 4ths.
 
All I want to know is how the hell that [sic] got into the quote of post #7.

Editing a quote is a bannable offense. Watch it sucka.
 
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