"Monochrome"

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fatstrat

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I wrote this a few years ago and put it on the shelf until a few weeks ago. Not really sure what it needs now. Any tips are appreciated.

EDIT: NEW MIX posted.
 

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My comments probably won't make sense, because I'm not sure I understand how to articulate this.

First - the music bed is really nice. From the sort of subdued drums to the ambient lead work, it all makes sense. I was going to assume the drums are fake, but I think I heard a drum clam? Not a big deal.

Something about the vocal processing is bugging me, but I can't really put my finger on it. The background vocals sound phased...like maybe a chorus or something is on them? I wouldn't do that for this song. As for the lead vocal, the verb is actually bugging me, even though it's not real pronounced. I guess what I'm saying is that you've got these really sweet guitar tones happening, and then the vocals sound like they're just in a different space...and that space is possibly from a Kansas record from the 1970's.

It's not a performance issue. It's like Emerson Lake and Palmer singing on a John Mayer record??? lol...I suck at this.

Nice tune.
 
First off, it's a pretty nice with some great guitar work.
Yes, the vocals sound kind of detached from the rest, kind of floating in space. Weakest part to me are the drums, I hear a couple of timing hitches and their sound could be more defined. A good drum sound will make a big difference here.
 
My comments probably won't make sense, because I'm not sure I understand how to articulate this.

It does make sense, knowing exactly what I did (now) to muck up the vocal tracks. :)

First - the music bed is really nice. From the sort of subdued drums to the ambient lead work, it all makes sense.

Wow, thanks! That means a lot to me coming from you.

I was going to assume the drums are fake, but I think I heard a drum clam? Not a big deal.

The drums are real, recorded with a 7 mic CAD set.

Something about the vocal processing is bugging me, but I can't really put my finger on it. The background vocals sound phased...like maybe a chorus or something is on them? I wouldn't do that for this song.

That's my ignorance you're hearing. I used an effect that comes with Reaper called an "Ozzifier" or something like that. It seems to simulate tracking multiple parts by doubling a track, panning each part left/right and slightly varying the pitch to make it seem like I tracked each harmony twice. I was going for a "big" sound, like a bunch of people singing at once. Obviously, I actually need to track a bunch of people singing if that's what I'm going for and the "Ozzifier" is not the answer.

Things like this are oblivious to my ears until someone calls my attention to it. I should know better, the shortcuts just never cut it. I'll definitely be tracking more vocals tonight.

I'm smacking myself right now, but many thanks for pointing it out. :D

As for the lead vocal, the verb is actually bugging me, even though it's not real pronounced. I guess what I'm saying is that you've got these really sweet guitar tones happening, and then the vocals sound like they're just in a different space...

I'm not at home now to see for sure, but if I remember correctly the guitar part (recorded direct with Amplitube Hendrix) has it's own reverb so I did not route it to the reverb track. As a matter of fact, I think I may have a separate reverb track for the vocals and drums as well. Again, I was trying to make the vocals sound bigger by adding extra reverb but it was too much for the drums, so they got their own reverb. Smacking myself again, but hey, I'm learning.

I'm thinking now I should shut the reverb off on the guitar, and route all the tracks dry to the reverb track and mix in just enough to sweeten things a bit. I'm sure just one reverb vst is better. Is that right?

Also, I never add reverb to bass tracks (which I always record direct), just a little compressor and that's it. I think I read that somewhere. I figure it could muddy things up, but I've never thought to just try it and see, it's become a habit.

and that space is possibly from a Kansas record from the 1970's.

:laughings:

It's not a performance issue. It's like Emerson Lake and Palmer singing on a John Mayer record??? lol...I suck at this.

Nice tune.

Thanks again! I've got a lot to think about and some work cut out for me over the next few days. I REALLY appreciate the advice. :)
 
First off, it's a pretty nice with some great guitar work.

Thanks a lot!

Yes, the vocals sound kind of detached from the rest, kind of floating in space.

See my reply to Chris above, I have issues when it comes to "less is more" and effects. :D

Weakest part to me are the drums, I hear a couple of timing hitches and their sound could be more defined. A good drum sound will make a big difference here.

I definitely need more practice on the drums to get some consistency. Some days it seems like my timing and fills are great and then the next day I'm all over the place hitting rims, missing cymbals and second guessing myself mid-stroke. I've owned a kit for about three years now but have only started playing it on a regular basis for the past few months, yet I still insist on practicing and recording stuff at the same time. :o

Hopefully, playing skills aside, I'll have a little better sound after this weekend. I got a lot of tips from Greg_L yesterday that I think are going to help a lot.

Thanks for listening!
 
i have no idea if my thoughts are valid. my recording gear is down at the moment, so i'm listening on crappy computer speakers.

the drums need help. the mix and tone just seem weak. the ride seems too pronounced and the kick and snare don't grab me well.

you've already heard comments about the bg vox anf leads, but i will say if it could sound like it was in the same space, i don't care what fx are on them, if that's what you want. def try without, though. see how it goes.

the dynamic of the verse and chorus is pretty even. it seems like the lead vox go down and the bg vox go up and the dynamic just stays even.

the guitars are great tone wise, just watch levels. and how all the tones fit together.
 
I think the lead vocals and guitars have been covered. I agree with the commenters with one exception... I think the heavy reverb you're using on the guitars (and especially the lead guitar) might be contributing to the disjointedness between the instrument bed and the lead vocal track.

My other comment is on the backing vocals. They sound VERY muffled. It's almost as if you have a low pass set up at about 2K or something.
 
Oh forgot about the kick. I'm on headphones so I can't be sure. But it sounds pretty wimpy to me. Not enough umph in it. Did you happen to make EQ cuts in the 300-600hz range? Sounds like it. Might have been overdone.
 
the drums need help. the mix and tone just seem weak. the ride seems too pronounced and the kick and snare don't grab me well.

Yeah, I've been fighting with the drum mix forever, but I've picked up a few tips lately that I hope will help. :)

Thanks for listening!
 
Oh forgot about the kick. I'm on headphones so I can't be sure. But it sounds pretty wimpy to me. Not enough umph in it. Did you happen to make EQ cuts in the 300-600hz range? Sounds like it. Might have been overdone.

"Overdone" is my middle name! :laughings:

If a little is good, then more is better, right? I'm learning its not. :)

Thanks for listening!
 
Ok, I stripped everything but compression from all the vocals, routed everything through a single reverb track, and retracked the lead vocal. I also played with the drum EQ/compression settings although this weekend I will retrack those as well...

How does it sound now? (File attached in original post...)
 
I'm listening to the remix version.

Love the clean tones on the guitar, really nice. What's your chain? I like how you've got the guitar noodling along behind the vocals.

I've got no problem with the vocals. I didn't listen to the previous version, so not comparing. But they sound good. I think performance is good.

I'm not crazy about the overall low end levels. I'm wondering what your mixing environment is like. Sounds to me like kick and bass are too far out front for this type of song.

Cool song. Thanks for sharing.
 
I'm listening to the remix version.

Love the clean tones on the guitar, really nice. What's your chain? I like how you've got the guitar noodling along behind the vocals.

The clean guitar is my strat run direct with Amplitube Fender and if I remember correctly, its the Twin amp simulation in a patch I made. I realize a lot of people hate the digital stuff and in a perfect world I'd always use my real amp, but I do most of my recording at night after everyone goes to sleep, sometimes up until 2-3am. I'm limited enough in that I can only do drum tracks in a short time window after work and on weekends. Its also just so convenient. I just plug in, dial up one of my presets and go. There's also the advantage of being able to change the preset or make adjustments after the track has been recorded, so I don't have to give up a good, "I'll never do it exactly that way again" take if I want to tweak the guitar tone. :D

I've got no problem with the vocals. I didn't listen to the previous version, so not comparing. But they sound good. I think performance is good.

I'm not crazy about the overall low end levels. I'm wondering what your mixing environment is like. Sounds to me like kick and bass are too far out front for this type of song.

I record and mix in a square-ish room with absolutely no sound treatments, yet. :o OC703 (or something equivalent) is on my shopping list, as soon as I can find someone within driving distance to buy it from. I have a pair of the economy KRK monitors, I forget the model but they have the 5" yellow speakers.

studio.jpg


Cool song. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks! And thanks for listening, I appreciate the input. I'll focus on that bass more tonight as I continue to play with this.
 
I'm listening to the remix. It's not as bad to me as the comments made me think it would be. The drums don't sound so great, but you're gonna fix that. The drumming itself is actually pretty decent. Mainly to me, the biggest problem is the vocal track. I don't know how you had it before, but it seems very dry and thin now. A little delay or some double-tracking might help out.
 
Yeah the BGVs are much better. The kick is way better too. It has a little bit of that "rubbery" sound to it, but way better than the first mix.

edit - are you rolling highs off of the BGVs? Kind of sounds like it. I probably wouldn't.
 
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Yeah the BGVs are much better. The kick is way better too. It has a little bit of that "rubbery" sound to it, but way better than the first mix.

edit - are you rolling highs off of the BGVs? Kind of sounds like it. I probably wouldn't.

I'm not, but I'll try boosting just a little and see how that sounds. Thanks for listening!
 
Love the guitar tone and performance - I'm on crappy speakers so can;t say much about the mix - I need to listen to it on my monitors so I can feel the bass.

Nice job
 
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