Mono Vs. Stereo Recording: Some Panning Questions, Please

[Mike Freze]

I have a stupid question, but we're here to learn, right? It concerns mono recording vs. stereo recording for panning considerations.

I realize that almost all instruments you record are recorded as "mono" to the tracks inside your recording software (I have Cubase LE).

If I record, say, my guitar to a track and mess with the panning, I can pan that recording hard left. What happens is the sound from my right speaker gradually lessens (goes away) and the recording gets louder to the left speaker. I can even make it disappear altogether from one speaker and go to the other with full panning. This is true with what I record or even if I import a mastered song (say, one of The Beatles tunes). Same thing.

How do I get my guitar to pan far left in BOTH speakers (not just send the total sound to the other speaker?) Like, I want to pan the guitar track to 3 0'clock for both left and right speakers; or maybe I want the right speaker to pan that guitar to 3 0'clock but have it come out at 9 0'clock in the left.

Is this where stereo comes into play? How do you take a mono track you recorded to get that stereo split? Do you put it on two channels withing the same track after you recorded in mono or do you need to duplicate the mono track to a new blank track and pan them out separately?

Where do you configure the setup to do this? In your "output" section of your mixer, your "input" section, or somewhere else? Should your panning controls show you how to split the signal so it becomes two channels? Do you have to bounce your project to get it to do this? I'm using my virtual mixer, by the way. A bit confused on HOW to get that two channel record on one track. Or does it have to be done while recording? Not everyone uses two mics to record every track just to make it end up a stereo track.

Thanks.

Mike Freze

 

[jamesl8]

In Cubase, i believe one of the options when you right click on a track is to copy the track. If it's not a right click option, then it is in the pull down menu somewhere. Make an exact duplicate of your mono recording and pan each one to your liking.

 

[Mike Freze]

Thanks, James, for the advice. I'll try the duplicating thing and pan each out differently. But isn't there a way to keep it all in the same track (just separating the one track into two channels?) Or will that not work because it's all on one track then and anything you pan would pan it all together as one sound?

Mike Freze

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

How do I get my guitar to pan far left in BOTH speakers (not just send the total sound to the other speaker?) Like, I want to pan the guitar track to 3 0'clock for both left and right speakers; or maybe I want the right speaker to pan that guitar to 3 0'clock but have it come out at 9 0'clock in the left.

The short answer: you don't.

Longer answer: if you want simultaneous but separate directional sources, the sounds must be different. I.E. you can do it with two different guitar parts, or with the same part delayed (with caveats), but with the same guitar part at the same time, you're subject to the stereophonic effect where the ears localize it as a single point source in the stereo field.

G.

 

[RAMI]

Make an exact duplicate of your mono recording and pan each one to your liking.

No, that doesn't work. You just end up with a louder MONO track. You just can't create "stereo" out of thin air. A mono track stays mono no matter what. You need to record the part twice if you want any kind of stereo.

 

[Mike Freze]

Thanks, Glen. So the advice from James above won't really work (just duplicating a mono track and pan each one differently? I can see your point of if it's the same exact duplicated sound, the ear won't hear the separate panned positions: it will still sound as if it comes from the same point.

It sounds silly just to pan a track, say, extreme right by itself (as one mono file) because all you are doing is moving the entire sound away from the left speaker and switching it to the right which would sound odd in a final recording. It's like you're only getting sound from one speaker then on each instrument you do this with. So I'll have to try the slight delay approach for each duplicated track, or try two different guitars playing the same thing to achieve that effect.

Glen, will merely changing the sound of a duplicated track (same guitar) work? Like a change in EQ settings, slight pitch differentiation, a chorus effect on only one track, etc?

That seems strange, too. I really don't want to hear the same rhythm guitar part sounding like chorus in my left speaker but clear in the right. That will make it sound like two different rhythm guitars for each speaker: not a separation of the same, single guitar that sounds slightly left or slighty right in BOTH speakers at once.

Mike

 

[Mike Freze]

Hey, RAMI, thanks. When you say record the performance twice to get stereo, do you mean a double track type of thing? Re-recording the same guitar, same chords, as close as possible to the original so there's just a slight difference between the two for separate panning?

Seems to me if most everything you record is mono, you end up with double the total tracks to work on (stressing your computer). So if I have a project with 12 tracks of 12 separate instruments/vocals, I really end up with 24 tracks because I had to double record every single instrument so they all get that stereo treatment for panning. Is this true?

Mike

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Thanks, Glen. So the advice from James above won't really work (just duplicating a mono track and pan each one differently? I can see your point of if it's the same exact duplicated sound, the ear won't hear the separate panned positions: it will still sound as if it comes from the same point.

If that's what James actually meant to say, no, unfortunately it won't work.

Stereophonic sound is all about sending the same sound to two speakers in order to simulate it's location somewhere between the two speakers. That's it's whole point, it's whole raison d'etre. So when you copy a mono track and pan each copy differently, all you're doing is stacking up the stereophonic effect to create, as Rami said, a louder mono point source.

Glen, will merely changing the sound of a duplicated track (same guitar) work? Like a change in EQ settings, slight pitch differentiation, a chorus effect on only one track, etc?

99.9% of the time, EQ alone won't do it; all that's doing is changing the tonal shape of 50% of a stereophonic point source, which is virtually the same as using half of the EQ you think you're using.

Chorusing that has some delay built into it can play with the stereophonic image somewhat, but often times it can bet just a "defocusing" of the sound into a more diffused, difficult to discern point rather than two discrete point sources. This is part of the "caveats" I mentioned when using delay. There are all sorts of unexpected psychoaoustic effects that can come into play when you start messing with delays, from "precedence" loudness effects to weird stereo image effects. That's not to say it can't be done, but like baking a cake, you haveto get the ingredients just right if you don't want to wind up with just an amorphous blob of goo.

The bottom line, Mike, is the only sure fire way to make it sound like two different guitar parts is to actually make it two different guitar parts. It's physics.

G.

 

[jamesl8]

...but with the same guitar part at the same time, you're subject to the stereophonic effect where the ears localize it as a single point source in the stereo field.

G.

i suppose i spoke too technically. The mono signal resulting from a copied track may not be the result you are looking for, Mike. But with a copied track you can technically pan the right to 3 o'clock and the left to 9.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

i suppose i spoke too technically. The mono signal resulting from a copied track may not be the result you are looking for, Mike. But with a copied track you can technically pan the right to 3 o'clock and the left to 9.

This is correct. Unfortunately the end result is nothing more than a single guitar panned at 12:00 noon.

G.

 

[RAMI]

i suppose i spoke too technically. The mono signal resulting from a copied track may not be the result you are looking for, Mike. But with a copied track you can technically pan the right to 3 o'clock and the left to 9.

Yeah....that's what you meant.

 

[jamesl8]

I've gotten some good sweeping effects on vocals from nudging a copied track a click or two ahead of the other. And while i didn't use a 9 to 3 pan, an 11 to 3 widened the 1 o'clock space and left room on the left for backups. i didn't know exactly what Mike was looking to achieve, but it is possible that there is a reason to want a copy of a mono track panned differently on each channel.

 

[Mixerman]

I have a stupid question, but we're here to learn, right? It concerns mono recording vs. stereo recording for panning considerations.

I realize that almost all instruments you record are recorded as "mono" to the tracks inside your recording software (I have Cubase LE).

If I record, say, my guitar to a track and mess with the panning, I can pan that recording hard left. What happens is the sound from my right speaker gradually lessens (goes away) and the recording gets louder to the left speaker. I can even make it disappear altogether from one speaker and go to the other with full panning. This is true with what I record or even if I import a mastered song (say, one of The Beatles tunes). Same thing.

How do I get my guitar to pan far left in BOTH speakers (not just send the total sound to the other speaker?) Like, I want to pan the guitar track to 3 0'clock for both left and right speakers; or maybe I want the right speaker to pan that guitar to 3 0'clock but have it come out at 9 0'clock in the left.

Is this where stereo comes into play? How do you take a mono track you recorded to get that stereo split? Do you put it on two channels withing the same track after you recorded in mono or do you need to duplicate the mono track to a new blank track and pan them out separately?

Where do you configure the setup to do this? In your "output" section of your mixer, your "input" section, or somewhere else? Should your panning controls show you how to split the signal so it becomes two channels? Do you have to bounce your project to get it to do this? I'm using my virtual mixer, by the way. A bit confused on HOW to get that two channel record on one track. Or does it have to be done while recording? Not everyone uses two mics to record every track just to make it end up a stereo track.

Thanks.

Mike Freze

The identical mono signal brought up at equal level on two inputs, one panned hard left and the other panned hard right will appear center. There's no difference between doing this, and putting one mono signal on one channel and leaving the pan pot center. In both cases, there is equal volume of the same signal sounding from both speakers.

If you want to make a mono source sound as if it's coming out of the left and the right, you must make a copy of the source, put them on two inputs, and delay one of the sides. Unfortunately, if you delay one side 20ms (just about the minimum delay time you can use to achieve this), it won't break down properly to mono without losing volume on the part in question. If you delay one side too much, the signal is so late it will cause perceived timing problems on the other instruments.

The simplest and most effective way to get the part to sound out of both speakers is to record a double track. That is to say, record the part twice. Pan one left, one right, BAM! guitars are coming out of both speakers.

It sounds silly just to pan a track, say, extreme right by itself (as one mono file) because all you are doing is moving the entire sound away from the left speaker and switching it to the right which would sound odd in a final recording.

I do it all the time, and so do loads of other professional mixers.

Enjoy,

Mixerman