Mondo Mando - Two Times Two

MC Gitarz

MC Gitarz

New member
So I seem to have my computer woes worked out but somtimes Telekom decides when I need to be cut off - makes posting a real bitch.
Nonetheless here's a new one to rake over the coals - it needs some serious help 'cause I tried some new things.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/MCGitarz (Album "Songs From the Attic" - song titled "Two Times Two")

Signal chain:
Guitar mic'd with a (name withheld) large condenser into an ART tube pre-amp - line in to BR-1180.
Mandolin - same path
Guitar -played twice: left channel bone dry, right channel detuned about 2 cents with 250ms delay
Mando - little bit o 'verb
Bass - DI box to ART to BR-1180
Interesting coincidences: the song is played at 202 BPM and with the decay tail it's 202 measures long.
Two guitars, two mandos - guess you know where I got the name.
Thanks in advance - I'm thinking about using this as my CD closing tune
 
This is some great playing

I would like to the hear the Mando out front a little more. It is taking the lead--let it lead. The bass could also come up a bit in the mix.

Really well played! I think you have something with this one.
 
Nice job of recording. Even at 128kb, there's still a lot of definition on the guitars. Good sound on the instruments. Nice little song too.

In the 1:40's I can hear a couple of spots you may have some unintentional pick noise.

In general the guitars are a little "big" - as in overpowering the mando just a bit. Minor thing though.

There's that pick thing again in the 2:30's.

The guitars are panned a bit wide. That may be what you want, but on headphones it is obvious it's a doubled part. Just in case you care....

My thoughts...
 
Thanks for the quick comeback!!

Man that was a quick comeback!! Thanks, guys!!

This was mixed on the same day as I tracked it sooooo............along come the inherent mix issues.

Sloop - yeah, I hear you - this is a tough one to mix for me 'cause the timbres are relatively close. The first couple times through the mandos were - how shall I say this - TF LOUD! So I turned 'em down too much, I guess. Thank you for the compliment!! In truth I'm using a Leo Kottke technique here - "taking a simple little melody and driving it into the ground!" Thanks again - I'll turn 'em up on th remix (tomorrow night)

MMM - Good ears, man. I was hoping to let some of the pick noise slip on by - guess not, huh? I'm just learning to mic the mando - and it's not been too easy so far. In order to get the low end to sound I need some proximity effect - the mic is damned close!! And that brings my hands a little closer to the body and the pick a wee bit too close to the fingerboard.

I think I'll bring the guitars a little closer to center, too - the idea is for a HUGE guitar (or so the article said) but I think you're right, it's definitely two distinct parts. But it's moreso on the Mp3 than the oiginal - interesting. It's also a lot brighter on the Mp3 - almost tinny in my cans. And I really DO care so thanks for the tip!! It's late here so I'll remix tomorrow night.

Thanks again to both of you!!
Milan
 
MC

This is a sweet album closer
I get pictures in my mind listening to this of those films you see on the PBS of low-flying over North American rural places. You know the ones where you cant see the plane, just the landscape.
This has a REAL Americana vibe.

This REALLY raises the bar for the Homereccers:)
This is truly GRAND MC.

Dan
 
(Bowing ever so humbly)

Thanks for the listen!!
Hevy - cool image idea!! I litened first thing this morning and can "see" what you're saying. Thanks for pointing that out - and thanks much for the compliment! I'm shooting for an "Americana" vibe so I appreciate your saying that. (Mend fast there, dude, the blues is lacking out here!)

Rustyfingers - you can count on the PM in December. Thank you for the remark- I can't think of a nicer compliment!
Milan
 
MC Gitarz

It's 2:30am here as I am listening to it so I can't crank it but from what I did hear at a lower level, this sounds amazingly GREAT!

I could hear all the parts clearly which is a good test of a mix at low volume. Usually, a lot of things will disappear in the detail but this seems to work well so, it is a testament to your recording and mixing skills for sure.

The music itself is very pleasing and happy. I really liked it.

The actual playing of the parts, guitar and mandolin sounded perfectly played and executed. I didn't hear any abnormal pick noises at this level but I will give it a listen at a healthier volume over the next few days and report back if there is a real issue there.

Wonderful stuff! :)
 
I like it. My technical ears are still new so I'm not going to go overboard there. It is a clean mix...something I'm still working on...and you play great mandolin. Nice tune....For some reason I can feel where a harmonica should come in and break up the song a bit.

Good Job

DustyJack
 
Wow, this has a very nice rich sound to it. Nice separation. I have no complaints really. Nicely recorded and played. Very well done.

I could use a little twist in there somewhere, something unexpexted like a new instrument, maybe some bongos. But is is very nice as is. Fine work.
 
My comments are pretty much the same as what you've already heard. Terrific piece of music. THe mandolin needs to be more out front which really probably means that the guitar needs to be smaller. The bass also need to move up in the mix more. Really fun piece.
 
:) I'm with the rest, let that mando shine, you play it real well. A great tune too.

Dan
 
My first thought was the guitar is too big sounding for this song. The actual recording of the guitar is wonderful sounding, just too bright and big sounding for this track. Love the mandolin--what instrument are you playing?

I love this kind of music. very nice job of writing, playing and recording. I may go back to hear more!
 
Thanks a Million!!

Well the advice pays off - Based on Sloop and Triple-M's critique I've remixed with a tighter spread on the guitar, boosted the level on the mando (with an ever-so-slight EQ change on both mandos), and I re-tracked the bass ('cause I didn't like the notes I played the first time). It's called "Two Times Two 2nd_Cut" (pretty darned original dontcha thinik??) After seeing the comments y'all made I guess I'm heading in the right direction with the changes - much obliged!!

Ghost - Thanks for listening and all the kind words! You've got a pretty darned critical ear so I know I can't slide too much past ya. Once you crank it you'll hear the pick smacking the fingerboard a couple times. Damn! But the tune comes across well at higher loudness levels - and you KNOW I likes it LOUD!

Dusty - Much obliged for your listening - I actually had a harmonica part sketched in but it just didn't seem to fit - first it was too much and then not enough - so then I tried the penny whistle and it went into an entirely different direction ('cause I don't play it very well!!)

Skids - Bongos - hmmmmmmmmmm - how's about a little Bodhran? I'm gonna try that this weekend but so far I haven't had a good result with micing it. The Irish get it to really whomp but I just make it sound 'thud-like.' But I'll have a go at it this weekend. Thanks for the idea!!

Jim S - Thanks for the ears and the complimentary words!! I've posted the recut but I'm thinking of ditching the effect on the right-channel guitar. It gets a little tinny for me. At some places the delay makes a sound sort of like fret-buzz and it makes me crazy. It adds a little 'pizazz' I guess but the guitar sound without the effect is pretty darned nice (for my lack of technique and my cheap mic.) The bass is up front more, too - good call.

dtb - Thanks. man!! It's shinin' some more now. I touched up the EQ only one db (push) on the low side of the lead mando - now it's getting closer to that plunky sound I like. Thank you for the compliment!!

Crawdad - Thank you for the kind words!! I think I agree about the big-ness of the guitar. I left the effect on for the second cut but I think I'll be taking it out entirely this weekend. I'm kinda, sorta a purist about wooden music. I don't even do punch-ins and outs - I play it through, and if I screw up, I play it again. That's where some of the pick noise and flubs come from - but hey, it's real!! The mando is an off-the-shelf, out-of-the-chinese-cardboard-box Kentucky (Gibson knock-off) - I bought it on a whim two months ago - had never played before. After a week I told my wife to start saving her pennies 'cause the Gibson will be a necessity in the coming year!! And this is the direction I'm heading musically so your words are encouraging.

Another humble bow to you all for the keen insight and solid advice!!
Thanks a million!!
Milan
 
Superb... :)

Great playing and performance.

Only nitpick I can think of is that the bass could use some more definition. Then again, it doesn't really bother me.

I should start listening to those Edgar Meyer/Sam Bush/Bela Fleck records again. Thanks for the reminder.
 
I listened to the second cut.

I think those guitars are spread perfectly now. They still have that full, doubled tracked sound, but are now working as a unit instead of against each other. Even on headphones, they sound like a unit. BTW - where do you have them panned now?

I still think there needs to be some EQ cuts in those gits so the mando comes through the mix a little better.

Nice little song. Good playing too. Real good sound.
 
Pedullist - Thank you, sir!! Coming from a bass player - that's encouraging!! I don't listen enough to Bela Fleck and those guys - I need to do that. My son's a big fan of Bela Fleck and he discovered him all on his own. If you can think of anything special or creative to do with the bass lines, please let me know. And BTW, I can hardly wait till I can get an avatar just like yours!! (nevermind - I take that back, I like the bare-backed chica better, sorry.) Again - thanks for the compliments!!

Trip M - Thanks for the re-listen!! On a scale of zero to 100 the guitars were at 78 - they're now at...wait a minute, hang on, gotta run up and check .................................OK the guitars are at 50 and the mandos are at 30. What do you think about cutting the de-tune and delay on the right channel? The high end drops significantly when you remove the effect. The only reason I kept them tonight was because of the really cool thumping they make with the bass on the downward progression. (Like those technical terms? Thumping? I went to scholl to learn that shit!!)
 
On your question about the delay... There's plenty of high end there now (maybe too much), so you probably have some "high end head room" to spare.

Ask yourself the question, "Why was the delay there in the first place?" If there's a good reason, then you might want to leave it.

My guess is you probably have it there to enhance the stereo effect. I don't think anything extra is needed, and so I'd say that the delay is not serving a useful purpose.

Just thoughts.
 
Good thoughts - the delay is there because I read an article that said it was a cool effect - and it is - it does enhance the stereo (and that ever-so-cool thumping) but I don't think I like it here. I'll cut it out this weekend. Even though I'm an analog guy at heart, I love the convenience of non-destructive editing!!
Thanks for caring and sharing!!
Milan
 
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