Mixing on board to get "the feel"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nightfire
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Nightfire

Nightfire

Aspiring Idiot
Hi,
I am fairly discontent with mixing in the box. Mainly panning, eq, and adjusting levels. I can deal with the automation, i actually quite like writing automation with the mouse (creat a path).
So I want to start mixing on the board. Since Im a student and always on the cheap I cant afford a higher end console. I know I will loose sound quality by going through a cheap mixer, and I dont want to compromise that.
So how about this....
Does anyone mix on a cheap or lower end mixer until the song sounds good, and THEN set your software tools to the same settings your got on your mixer.
For ex. I would "mix" on a cheap behringer board, using plugins in the software and doing automation in the software, but EQ, levels and panning would be doen on the board. After the song felt good I would just adjust all the faders in the software to the same position I have them on the board, same with EQ. Does this seem counterpoductive, or stupid?
I just want a real hands on aproach to improve mixes. Plus, I want blinking lights:o and knobs, and faders.


Mike
 
What you probably want is a DAW control surface. This is a physical unit that resembles a mixer with faders and knobs and such, but is not an actual analog mixer, but rather a sophisticated firewire- connected controller for your DAW software. You're still mixing ITB, but you have the physical control and feel of an outboard mixer.

G.
 
Yeah, the only drawback is
1) theyre expensive, more expensive than a cheap mixer
2) the ones Ive seen have volume and panning buttons/faders but not eq.

The advantage with the mixer is I could also use it for more sophisticated routing options, and headphone mix etc.


Mike
 
Nightfire said:
Yeah, the only drawback is
1) theyre expensive, more expensive than a cheap mixer
2) the ones Ive seen have volume and panning buttons/faders but not eq.

The advantage with the mixer is I could also use it for more sophisticated routing options, and headphone mix etc.


Mike
Click to expand...
Remember, cheap mixers are cheap mixers for a reason. Be prepared to have a lousy-sounding EQ section on a cheap mixer; hardly worth going OTB for. And be prepared to add to the noise floor mixing on a cheap mixer.

But even beyond that, you'll have the added expense (unless you already have this capability) of having to have enough channels of good quality D/A I/O between your computer and the mixer. The number of tracks you can actually mix out of the box will be limited to the number of output converter channels you have (not to mention the number of input channels on the mixer.) If you want to be able to mix 16 channels OTB, you'll need 16 channels of D/A conversion and at least 16 channels of mixer with halfway-decent EQ. Not to mention enough Aux sends to handle the headphone mixes (which your DAW software should be able to handle anyway.)

Put all that together, and a decent DAW surface can look like a bargain.

But the bottom line is if you want outboard mixing *and* ITB setting control, you'd have to go with a digital mixer/controller combo. That'll cost you even more.

G.
 
I used to have Tascam US-2400 control surface that did EQ, and if you felt like screwing around a bit could even do plugins. They've been discontinued but sometimes pop up on ebay. I know because I was forced to ebay mine. I nearly cried. Those things are great. But yeah, probably more expensive than a cheap mixer.
 
legionserial said:
I used to have Tascam US-2400 control surface that did EQ, and if you felt like screwing around a bit could even do plugins. They've been discontinued but sometimes pop up on ebay. I know because I was forced to ebay mine. I nearly cried. Those things are great. But yeah, probably more expensive than a cheap mixer.
Click to expand...
Now you can get something like the the DM 3200, or the bigger brother DM4800. Digital mixers and control surfaces in one. I love 'em myself. But at (if I remember) $3K for the basic 3200, they are not for someone on a "cheap mixer" budget.

Then again, compare that against 24 or 32 channels of decent D/A conversion and a 24 or 32 channel analog mixer, that's downright cheap. Even something like a Mackie 32.8 costs about the same just for the mixer alone before the converters, and it's EQ isn't exactly anything to write home about.

G.
 
I know it's only because I've never done it...But I can't imagine mixing with a mouse. I sort of have the best of both worlds in that, I record everything on my TASCAM 2488, with physical faders, etc....and then bring my 2 track master into Reaper for "mastering". I'm pretty sure you can get one for about $500-700, if you can find one.
 
Last edited:
Nightfire said:
Hi,
I am fairly discontent with mixing in the box. Mainly panning, eq, and adjusting levels. I can deal with the automation, i actually quite like writing automation with the mouse (creat a path).
So I want to start mixing on the board. Since Im a student and always on the cheap I cant afford a higher end console. I know I will loose sound quality by going through a cheap mixer, and I dont want to compromise that.
So how about this....
Does anyone mix on a cheap or lower end mixer until the song sounds good, and THEN set your software tools to the same settings your got on your mixer.
For ex. I would "mix" on a cheap behringer board, using plugins in the software and doing automation in the software, but EQ, levels and panning would be doen on the board. After the song felt good I would just adjust all the faders in the software to the same position I have them on the board, same with EQ. Does this seem counterpoductive, or stupid?
I just want a real hands on aproach to improve mixes. Plus, I want blinking lights:o and knobs, and faders.


Mike
Click to expand...

When I first tiptoed into the digital world, I had a distinct sense of loss at not being able to have that physical interaction with a mix. I too searched for ways of recreating it, but decided I couldn't afford the means of getting stuff out of the PC and back in again without losing along the way.

So I put my regrets behind me and decided to live with ITB mixing. Recreating an analog the physical world in the box is difficult . . . and I didn't bother. Instead, I learnt new techniques to cope, and now I don't miss analog mixing at all. In fact I enjoy not having to cope with the real time mixing I remember, where you needed six hands to work through the choreography of a particularly complicated mix (this was in the days of tape).
 
gecko zzed said:
When I first tiptoed into the digital world, I had a distinct sense of loss at not being able to have that physical interaction with a mix. I too searched for ways of recreating it, but decided I couldn't afford the means of getting stuff out of the PC and back in again without losing along the way.

So I put my regrets behind me and decided to live with ITB mixing. Recreating an analog the physical world in the box is difficult . . . and I didn't bother. Instead, I learnt new techniques to cope, and now I don't miss analog mixing at all. In fact I enjoy not having to cope with the real time mixing I remember, where you needed six hands to work through the choreography of a particularly complicated mix (this was in the days of tape).
Click to expand...

Amen, I coulda wrote that entire post myself!

That being said, I took the final plunge and am now perfectly content mixing ITB, the automation and features rock! I recorded in a studio once where we considered his mixing a performance.. We'd listen to the end result, and try to decide if we thought he could 'play the mixer' better if he tried again.. We accepted flaws because the rest of the mix was the best he ever got it so far, and we didnt wanna have him try again and potentially make it worse.

IMO, if you want blinky flashy lights and impressive looking rows of knobs, you're best off save it for your artist's monitoring chain.
 
I totally agree with everything everyone said above. That said, I mix OTB most of the time, but I've invested in really good ADDA to make it worthwhile. I have kinda mid-level outboard that I use pretty frequently on some stuff, but I also use UAD and Voxengo plugins and do all of my automation ITB. I also feel no guilt whatsoever in jumping back ITB on a mix when that's to my advantage.

What you're suggested with setting up a mix OTB, then moving it ITB would be tough. You'd never get the settings exactly the same, and even if you did it would only be an approximation.

Frank
 
Thanks for all the input, after much deliberation I think Tascam has the product I want, even though its more than I want to spend right now, I think the Tascam FW-1884 fits the bill;)


Mike
 
Bcf2000

I though I'd chime in about the Behringer BCF2000. It's a usb midi controller that can bring a bit of the touch feeling back to digital mixing without breaking the bank.
It's got limitations, but it really can help with mixing.

Plus it's got motorized faders. They look cool. :)

I got mine for less than $200.
 
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