Mixers and Home Recording

[ecc83]

I had a device that used Dsub connector fanouts and they were crazy prices!

Ah well! See Rob I LURVE making up cables, the more complex the better. I also like designing rigs to test them.

I have a CATX 'chase' 2 part test box, less than a score and I intend to make adapters for it for XLR, DINs whatever. Handy for a studio situation because you have a send unit and remote indicator.

Dave.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

An antique mixer for 400 Euros? (my keyboard doesn't even have a euros key)
How long is it going to stay working?
Can you check the knobs and faders for crackles and pops?
You could take a risk, and if it is no good, just chuck it.

 

[Pedro Dos]

An antique mixer for 400 Euros? (my keyboard doesn't even have a euros key)
How long is it going to stay working?
Can you check the knobs and faders for crackles and pops?
You could take a risk, and if it is no good, just chuck it.

Yes I’m French that’s why it’s in euros ^^
It’s the price for it I guess I was tracking the market and it was always between 400€ and 700€.

The seller told me she was working perfectly, and he need to sell it because he is moving out of his house and have no more Space for it and that it was a heartbreak for him.

Yes and it’s a pretty search piece for what I saw so I start thinking that if it’s not fitting for me I still can resell it maybe.

 

[Pedro Dos]

Yes I’m French that’s why it’s in euros ^^
It’s the price for it I guess I was tracking the market and it was always between 400€ and 700€.

The seller told me she was working perfectly, and he need to sell it because he is moving out of his house and have no more Space for it and that it was a heartbreak for him.

Yes and it’s a pretty search piece for what I saw so I start thinking that if it’s not fitting for me I still can resell it maybe.

 

[Pedro Dos]

An antique mixer for 400 Euros? (my keyboard doesn't even have a euros key)
How long is it going to stay working?
Can you check the knobs and faders for crackles and pops?
You could take a risk, and if it is no good, just chuck it.

Do you think 400€ is too expansive when you say « antique » mixer ?

 

[ecc83]

Do you think 400€ is too expansive when you say « antique » mixer ?

Such a mixer is very useful if you need its various functions. Without finding the user manual I shall have to guess but you should have inserts for each mic channel to run external effects. Each channel should have at least 3 band EQ and a tunable MID. The monitor section should have PFL, AFL and group faders. Remember, the mixer was designed to interface with a tape machine or/and possibly for live PA work. AUX sends, FX sends all stuff you don't need "at home".
Tape recorders are not noted for a super low noise level (sorry Sweetbeats!) so there was little incentive to make mixer more than a few dBs better. These days we have 50 Euro interfaces with a 100dB dynamic range and 120dB is pretty common for not that much more.

Dave.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

Do you think 400€ is too expansive when you say « antique » mixer ?

Not really. It is pocket change.
I just bought a mixing console for the price of a decent new car.

 

[Pedro Dos]

Such a mixer is very useful if you need its various functions. Without finding the user manual I shall have to guess but you should have inserts for each mic channel to run external effects. Each channel should have at least 3 band EQ and a tunable MID. The monitor section should have PFL, AFL and group faders. Remember, the mixer was designed to interface with a tape machine or/and possibly for live PA work. AUX sends, FX sends all stuff you don't need "at home".
Tape recorders are not noted for a super low noise level (sorry Sweetbeats!) so there was little incentive to make mixer more than a few dBs better. These days we have 50 Euro interfaces with a 100dB dynamic range and 120dB is pretty common for not that much more.

Dave.

Thanks again for your answers @Slouching Raymond and @ecc83 !

I was already aware of the specs and the maintenance issue that commes with it but now it's more precise !
Do you think for the price it will be a good option ? It will give me 20 more preamps (because i will just use it for the preamps), or should I focus on some modern gear step by step ?

For the moment I saw totally opposit opinions on the preamp, this is why I hesitate !

Thnaks again

P.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

Around 20 years ago, I was micing up my big drum kit. Probably 14 mics or so.
I bought a Behringer 32ch Eurodesk for the job, which gave me loads of preamps to plug into.
It cost me £450 new, and still works perfectly today.
I started pre-mixing down to the 8 subgoups, but more lately I mix down to stereo and record that.
As each channel has an insert after the pre-amp, they could have fed into an interface separately (never thought of that).
So I'm just saying you might be able to find a modern mixer that could do the job better.
400 Euros is not a huge risk. You'll never know until you've tried it.

 

[RFR]

It will give me 20 more preamps (because i will just use it for the preamps)

P.

More preamps is always good, even better if they’re affordable.

 

[rob aylestone]

400 euros is in my opinion, far too much money for a product like this - it could work, but if it does, how long for. If, like ECC83, you have the skills to fix it when things die, it could be fine - but looking at my pile of old repairs waiting, even I don't want to buy any more old kit.

 

[TalismanRich]

I love the idea of a big ol' mixing desk, with lots of knobs and faders, and output jacks and meters and stuff. That's because it's what people used when I was young. I recently found a flyer for the first real recording studio I ever visited. This would be '71 or '72. It might as well been the bridge of the Starship Enterprise. So AMAZING!!!
I used to dream of one day being able to record like that. Turns out that today I can.

I have had an old Yamaha MX 12/4 mixer for years that I use for PA duties and a couple of Zoom recorders and an 8 channel interface. I could record a ton of tracks should the need ever arise, but buying an old desk is the furthest thing from my mind. If I was going to go down that road, it would be a more modern unit. The question is Do you need that many inputs, or do you just want to play with preamps looking for "color" (I personally hate that term). Then, as Dave said, can you fix it when something goes bad or will it become a money pit that costs you 500€ in repair costs at a tech's shop?

 

[ecc83]

Just because they are "old" 60s pre amps does not mean they are going to give you any "60s mojo". I would like to see a schematic but I am betting they are just the common or garden 'hybrid' pres consistIng of a pair of bipolar transistors and a fairly bog standard op amp (i.e. not even the very excellent NE 5532/4) Such pre amps can be found in a vast number of budget mixers, notably by Behringer! In other words...you are NOT getting Neves or SSls!
And I don't want to pre-judge the device but early transformerless pre amps needed pretty sophisticated RFI filtering, one of the reasons they were so hard to make work effectively in many situations.

Worth the money? IMHO, no. I would put it to another use.

Dave.

 

[Papanate]

Just because they are "old" 60s pre amps does not mean they are going to give you any "60s mojo".

The Beatles recorded Abbey Road on a EMI TG12345 transistorized mixing console - it definitely had a sound - but the 60’s vibe is much more than the recording consoles, tape machines, compressors, plates and chambers - it’s what the musicians brought to the table - the way the events of the world shaped their thinking - which informed their singing and playing - and that’s something that can't be duplicated - such as Lenny Kravitz who uses a totally retro system - yet he sounds modern - and to your point @ecc83
peoples money is better spent on getting gear that they can afford - then manipulating the sound with the many plugins that can reshape the music - I think the end product is people can’t tell what was used - and that’s what a good does.

 

[ecc83]

I was put in mind of this very common thread, the search for that "old rock sound" a month or so ago when I read about the history of the echo chamber (re your mention of "The Plate" Papa) in sound on sound.
Yes! It suddenly struck me! You can assemble all the (grotty IMHO!) harmonically rich (aka "distorted") pre amps you like, bend the needles on the VU meters on your tape machine but what you will NEVER have is the echo chambers used by Abbey Rd and many famous American studios of the '60s. Abbey rd was of course one of the first to get an EMT plate. FOUR of the fekkers!

Dave.

 

[TalismanRich]

In the mid 60s, one local recording studio used their concrete block garage with a speaker and a microphone for their echo chamber. I've heard of others using a stairwell. Those would get you a bit of that "old rock sound". That was the style for many studios, Sunset Sound, Capitol, Abbey Road all had rooms with speakers and mics. Motown's room was in the attic of their converted house.

 

[Papanate]

I was put in mind of this very common thread, the search for that "old rock sound" a month or so ago when I read about the history of the echo chamber (re your mention of "The Plate" Papa) in sound on sound.
Yes! It suddenly struck me! You can assemble all the (grotty IMHO!) harmonically rich (aka "distorted") pre amps you like, bend the needles on the VU meters on your tape machine but what you will NEVER have is the echo chambers used by Abbey Rd and many famous American studios of the '60s. Abbey rd was of course one of the first to get an EMT plate. FOUR of the fekkers!

I have the Abbey Road Plates and Chambers plugings - they sound to me fairly close - have you used them?

 

[ecc83]

I have the Abbey Road Plates and Chambers plugings - they sound to me fairly close - have you used them?

No but but then I am not a musician or songist! My point was really that the "seekers of the '60s mojo" have, IMHO missed a very important factor in the sound of many of the hits. We hear endless waffles about vintage mics, pre amps with "attitude" and "tape sound" but nobody has ever asked about the acoustics of those old studios and the steps they took to add extra reverb.

Re "stairwells" and suchwhich? The SoS feature tells us that many studios tried to build echo chambers but it seems 99% of them sounded ***t!

Dave.

 

[TalismanRich]

For small studios that didn't have the budget to buy an EMT or such, a tiled or cement room that wasn't being used was a quick and cheap way of adding ambience. If you were a major studio recording Frank Sinatra, Doris Day or Fats Waller, you didn't worry about cost or space. You had whatever you wanted.

https://reverb.com/news/6-echo-chambers-that-shaped-the-sound-of-popular-music

 

[Papanate]

We hear endless waffles about vintage mics, pre amps with "attitude" and "tape sound" but nobody has ever asked about the acoustics of those old studios and the steps they took to add extra reverb.

My crowd talks about the Plates and Chambers - the Studio Acoustics - the Mics - Compressors - in context - they captured the sound - but it was the engineers who shined with techniques - there wasn’t a lot of dodads to get noises - they had to be very creative - and simple things made a difference - Geoff Emerick moved the Kick Drum mic 2”s from the head - and the EMI heads were in a tizzy about that - but because it was the Beatles he got to do it -

Re "stairwells" and suchwhich? The SoS feature tells us that many studios tried to build echo chambers but it seems 99% of them sounded ***t!

Abbey Road Plates Have a EMT plate with 600 Hz hi pass, and a 10 kHz low pass (I think they have since upgraded)- Sunset Sound was the same setup although I think it was extended 11kHz- but only big important studios could afford EMT plates - but if we are being honest - not a lot of the 60s sound is that good - many Engineers didn’t know the basics about recording - or they would just follow what they had been told to do - whether it worked or not.